Business for Good: How to Bootstrap and Raise Funding from Your Stakeholders - RASA | EP. #33

On this 33rd episode of The E-Comm Show, our host and BlueTuskr CEO Andrew Maff is with Lopa Van Der Mersch of Rasa, a business for a good coffee alternative brand that delivers high-quality and premium herbs and drinks. And as a mission-driven brand, Lopa shares how RASA is living up to its brand values by sustainably sourcing herbs from traditionally-growing regions, promoting herbal education, and supporting grassroots communities.

Listen to Andrew and Lopa as they talk about marketing, supply chain, and RASA’s journey to an 8-figure brand.

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Business for Good: How to Bootstrap and Raise Funding from Your Stakeholders

SPEAKERS

Andrew Maff and Lopa van der Mersch

CONNECT WITH OUR HOST: AndrewMaff.com  |  Twitter: @AndrewMaff | LinkedIn: @AndrewMaff

About Lopa van der Mersch

Lopa van der Mersch, Founder & CEO

Transcript:

00:02

I hold the big hairy audacious goal of changing our culture's relationship to energy and making a dent in the coffee market I just want one percent

00:10

Hey everyone is Nicole B. the chief pretty chick in charge at shopprettypieces.com this is Rolando with global tech worldwide. Hi, this is Lopa Van Der Mersch from RASA you are listening to you're watching and you are listening to The E-Comm Show.

00:30

Welcome to The E-Comm Show, presented by BlueTuskr, the number one place to hear the inside scoop from other e-commerce experts. They share their secrets about how they scaled their business and are now living the dream. Now, here is your host, Andrew Maff.

00:51

Hello, everyone and welcome to another episode of The E-Comm Show. I'm your host Andrew Maff. And today I am joined by the amazing Lopa Van Der Mersch of RASA. Lopa, how are you doing today? Ready for a good show?

01:02

I'm doing great. Super ready.

01:03

Cool. Awesome. Very excited about this one you. Ross is one of the A I love the branding. So I can't wait to get into that and B as far as I'm aware, you are one of the first public benefit corporations we've had on the show, and I would love to see what that whole process was like and why you made that decision. But I digress. Why don't I give you a second here and kind of tell us a little bit more about rasa. And we'll go from there.

01:26

Sure. So we're here to change the way people Energize. And we are doing that through herbal coffee alternatives that feature adaptogens and functional mushrooms that give you nice sustained energy. We have 10 products and 20 people on our team. And you know, we're trying to change the world in a small way that we can, which is part of why we're a public benefit corporation. I very much believe in business for good. And we are seeing that across all of our stakeholders in a really beautiful way. Beautiful.

01:55

What made you start rasa? What? What was the story behind getting it going?

02:00

Yeah, you know, necessity is the mother of invention. And for me becoming a mother was the necessity that drove that. So I had a just monumentally stressful year. And it was one for the record books just really solid. I now call it my own personal 2020 Because it was kind of like that but in my own life. And then I had a baby, my first baby and you know, this beautiful little thing waking me up all hours of the night and I'm completely exhausted and my nervous system is fried. And I tried coffee. I was never much of a coffee drinker. But I was like, Alright, this is the time when I just drink coffee, right? No hard. No, it was panic attacks and jitters and anxiety and mess with my sleep even more. And I was like, okay, that's clearly because of all the stress I was under that year like my nervous system literally couldn't handle the caffeine boost. So I tried all the coffee alternatives out there that were available at the time. It was like really, nobody has made the apotheosis of coffee alternatives. Like, there's this. I've been an urban enthusiast for many years. And an iron VEDA student for many years as well. And I was like, okay, so we have this whole herbal Pharmacopoeia, and we drink like a few plants are the ones that we focus on in coffee being a big one that can come with a lot of side effects for people. So it was like, Okay, let's, let's get as many of those good plants as we can into everybody's cup and see how that can change people's lives. And so I partnered with an herbalist because though I am an enthusiast, I am not clinically trained. difference there. And so yeah, she made the formula and we were off to the races.

03:42

And you said you have 10 different products and flavors, I guess you would call them.

03:47

Yeah, they're all a little different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So we have, you know, original blend, which is 12 herbs, seven adaptogens. To mushrooms. We have that blend mixed with cacao, we have one that's mixed with coffee, which is like a great gateway drug for many people. It's one of the only coffees that I can drink without having negative side effects because the herbs help to balance it out. And then we have ones for libido, mood, immune support, and inflammation. And, and then like one that's kind of extra energizing, and one that's calming, and then we also just came out with a functional mushroom blend. And then we have a creamer as well.

04:27

So your branding is very interesting, right? So like I went, you know, obviously dug around a little bit. The one that stood out to me is obviously rasa poop went straight to your Instagram. That was the first thing in your link tree and I was like, This is hilarious. I love the branding around it the whole concept that it does, you know, it's always interesting to kind of make light of a situation similar to that, like, What's the concept behind the branding what made you kind of go in that direction of I call it like Very Instagram friendly, but also like, slightly comical. Yeah,

05:05

um, well, first, first and foremost, poop was launched on April 1. So I'll just

05:10

leave that there. Okay, so brand new,

05:14

brand new, it's super limited edition. And we, I think we'll probably sell out of it like today or tomorrow. So we're just, we just did it. We're like, alright, we'd like to do a blend that's great for digestion and helps you haven't read. We're like, let's just call it to poop and launch it for April Fool's Day. I would say that the brand and the humor that we have in the brand, it's, it's an interesting combination. Because, you know, we've got our herbalist back, there's a lot of science behind what we do. The substantive newness of how we're approaching sustainability. And all of that is very important. And so we have this, you know, we have to have some, like heavy hitting components to like how we're educating and all that. But then, I don't know, I'm a whack job like yeah, I, I would not keep doing this if I was not having fun. And so in order to have fun, like, we need to have fun as a brand, my team has fun. Like we had so much fun writing the copy for, for poop, the poop jokes were flowing for months. And intended, actually fully intended. They're incorporating them and dropping those jokes. So yeah, it's just its part of I have a very salacious sense of humor, I, you know, collect horrendously inappropriate memes on the side. And it just comes out in what I do, because the brand is, you know, in part, it's becoming increasingly not me, and not just me, but you know, there's a lot of meat in the brand. And so the culture that we've created is, that the wellness will be pretty stiff and take itself pretty seriously. And so there's part of also like, you know what, let's, let's have a good time taking care of our bodies and not be so rigid about it.

06:56

How long ago did you start wrestling?

06:58

Ah, we hard launched? Oh, my God, it's almost our birthday, April 11, 2018. So four years? Yeah.

07:05

Happy almost burthen? What, um, so you're almost four years in, I know, you, you know, got well into the seven figures range. What is it you think that really helped you guys kind of propel yourselves at that's a relatively quick rate, like within four years to get where you guys are at is not incredibly common? So what do you think it was that helped you differentiate and helped you kind of get the business where it is now?

07:31

Yeah, it's, it's a number of things. I mean, if I look at it from, there's the longtail stuff. And then there's the quick sort of hacky stuff, I would say on the quick hacky side, Facebook and Instagram, you know like we scaled through paid media, and we had some ads that perform really well when we were in the era of ads performing well, which is no longer.

07:57

I remember those days. Yeah.

08:00

They were great. So much, too. And then. So you know that that did very well for us. But you know, underneath that we have a very like product quality is incredibly important to us, we have a very high-quality product, it tastes good. It's very functional, which is not what you often find in this space. Unfortunately, there's a lot of stuff that is like, well, it's good for me, I guess I'll keep drinking it. Boys formulated for flavor. And I really appreciate that a mentor very early on that tried the first formula and was like, You know what, it has to taste good, otherwise, people aren't going to drink it. And so we really worked on that. And now we're always going for both flavor and function. We have, you know, values really built into our company. You know, there's a real personality to the brand, and we're very intimate and connected. And so I'd say these are all the more longtail things that come into making a brand and helping with the retention overall. So high-quality products, you know, we have really long, long tail on our cohorts. And our retention is phenomenal. So we've, we've been able to both scale in terms of customer acquisition, but then we really retain our customers in a beautiful, impressive way.

09:12

Now that the wild west of paid advertising has ended. What's the new approach?

09:21

Yeah, I think the new approach started, like everybody else was scrambling and just being like maybe if we do more creative, maybe if we just amp up our CapEx, and we did. For what it's worth, we did do a lot deeper analysis on our LTV to CAC, which I sincerely regret not doing before because we could have been spending so much more before in the era of the Wild Wild West, the Facebook heyday but we did amp up our customer acquisition cost in keeping with what we had for LTV, and we shifted to becoming a subscription folk focus business or product is very well suited for consumption. We shifted the customer journey to be more focused on that we added a quiz that was entirely too long and now we're shortening it. If you do the quiz though, if you're listening and you go to our website and it's like, in the next two weeks before April 15, we do the quiz. Just enjoy all the jokes. There are a lot of jokes in there. And, and then now, so we basically have, we're still investing in Facebook, we're testing new channels. For us podcast, Tik Tok. We have not invested in influencers at all or PR at all. We just did our first capital raise. So we did a crowdfunding and equity crowdfunding, and that went phenomenally well, we are actually the number one food crowdfunded food brand in the world, and the number two women-founded brand. So yeah, smashing success, which I think was large because of the customer retention that we have and the brand, brand love that we have, you know, 92% of our investors were customers. And we raised $4.2 million. But now that we have that capital, and we're not bootstrapped anymore, because we were bootstrapped this whole time, which is a painful way to grow business, I don't recommend it. I do recommend it in some ways too, I'm really glad that we have as much ownership as we do. And it does afford a lot more flexibility as well but I think I might be slightly traumatized so yeah, testing new channels, PR influencers affiliates, really working on the word of mouth that we have. And tick tock and podcasts and then also starting to move into retail as well, which is a big opportunity for us. Yeah. So that's one that we're looking at in earnest.

11:48

I'm shocked that you haven't gone the influencer route. Prior to this. It's when I first was looking at everything else as influencer stuff written all over it. So if you guys are just now starting to do that. Exactly. Have to have you guys on again, like a year or two from now, and be like, alright, so you're huge now? Yes, exactly.

12:04

Exactly. Yeah, it's very low-hanging fruit for us. We had other people that were like, Wait, you're not investing in? What are you doing? Yeah. So yeah, that's starting to happen. And we just had one of the gender families invested in us. And as you know, putting forward his was welcoming to become a spokesperson and all that stuff. Yeah. Influencers started off. Yeah. Nice.

12:27

The concept of doing crowdfunding towards an equity side of things is genius. I love that approach, simply because A, the people that are more likely to invest are the ones that have already used your product before and know who you are, and then be, they're probably gonna stick around a little bit longer now that they've got equity in the business. So what was that?

12:50

What was that thought process, it was basically what you just laid out, we were like, Wait a second. So at first, I was a little bit nervous, you know, you're very open with your financials, you, you know, everybody knows our run rate and everything now. And I was a little nervous about that, you know that because there is this, there's a bit of secrecy, I think, in the CPG space, in the E-commerce space, everybody wants to hold their cards a little closer, that they have that advantage. And we have been very transparent in a lot of our marketing in general. And we realized that that actually worked very well for us. And one of the ads that we had that scales, the best was, was just a, it was not very ad like it was a very kind of raw, transparent perspective on whether or not our product is safe for pregnancy. And so we're like, okay, that has worked for us in the past, let's just go radically transparent, share the whole thing, like, let's not be precious about, you know, what we've got behind the scenes here, maybe it can actually help other people. Maybe it can help our industry and, and yeah, we just were like, if we have these incredibly passionate customers, you know, these reviews saying that the product is life-changing, and all this, why wouldn't we give the opportunity for them to profit off of our profits, you know, like that, that's a win win win. It's a regenerative capital model that uplifts the stakeholders that make your business possible. Like it's so wonderful, and it makes so much sense. Very self-fulfilling, and we also have suppliers invested in our manufacturers invested and consultants, and almost all of our employees invested have their own accord, you know, so it's very, it's a really wonderful model to become, you know, at least partially community owned. And so it really puts the onus on, you know, are we actually doing the right thing for our customers and our investors, those are the same thing. How wonderful is that? It doesn't have to be at odds

14:48

very interesting. And if you don't mind me asking, how much did you give up to all the new stakeholders now? How much equity did you give them?

14:56

18% I believe I actually haven't done the math since we finally since we have closed the round. We just were on Thursday. So we raised at a $25 million valuation. Pretty much there.

15:05

Yeah. And do you still own the other? 82%?

15:09

Yes. Aside from a few employees who have a few percent? Wow, that's impressive. And more options, you know, just haven't invested yet.

15:18

Yeah. Wow. I love it. What did you do through a specific platform? Did you kind of do it on your own end? Like how did you?

15:26

We funder? And yeah, I definitely don't even know if it's possible to do outside of a platform legally. That could be you may be able to see but yeah, we funder it has been a great partner for us, or we're really glad that we did that platform. Wow. Great.

15:42

So public benefit corporation. Yeah. What was that thought process? Like? What was? What was the whole process of getting that done? Like, like, tell me a little about that? Yeah, so

15:54

um, I've always been very mission-driven and doing a lot on the sustainability side, and on the ethical side that we just weren't even really marketing, which was, I don't know, maybe kind of dumb at first. Or just dumb but just short-sighted because we weren't doing it because we wanted to market it, we were doing it because that's the right thing to do. And because that's aligned with our values. And so there was a way in which we were a little bit stealth about it, not intentionally, just we weren't publicizing it. And then we were like, wait for a second, we should probably be telling people all these things that we're doing one, first and foremost, and we should probably make it a forefront of our business more formally. We had looked at B Corp, which is different from a public benefit corporation. And because they both have a P in them, I think many people, like confuse the two. We've had many times they're like, oh, I love B Corp. We're like, Nope, it's different. So B Corp is a qualitative certification issued by B Corp. And it is very in-depth, I respect it very much. And I've also heard a lot of people say that you know, they haven't seen any real return for having done the tremendous amount of work that it is to actually get that certification. And I and I still think it's great, it might be worth it from a brand perspective, from, you know, from a long term perspective, and from like, what you're actually doing in the organization, it can help keep a lot of accountability there. a public benefit corporation is actually a legal structure. So, B Corp, there's no recourse except for you losing your certification if you don't do what's in your B Corp certification and stuff with a public benefit corporation. So a normal Corporation, the fundamental purpose of a corporation is to maximize profit to shareholders, with a public corporation equal to maximize profit for shareholders, as well as to maximize a public benefit that you have stated is in alignment with your mission. And so you, what you have is the opportunity to let those things be at odds in the way that is helpful for the business, you know, like, we can make a decision that cuts down on profit, because it's actually in support of our public benefit mission. Without getting sued, you know, like, whereas with a normal Corporation, like you can get sued for that kind of ship, by your stakeholders by yours. And so we can actually get sued if we don't uphold our public benefit. Like on the other hand, there is a legal and fiduciary responsibility to be in alignment with our mission. And so we were in, we're an S corp before. And in order to take on that many investors, we would have had to restructure anyway, we're like, alright, let's just go ahead and do the B Corp. Because this, this, just the timing makes sense. And we want to do this anyway. It was, you know, as corporate restructuring, so there's a lot of legal and a lot of you know, I remember like signing through, I

18:54

can only imagine it's just solid.

18:58

And maybe just to go back into the humor side of things. I don't I don't think I've ever said this on the podcast before. But for those of you listening, here's a little treat for you. My husband, who is way more adept at all of the legal and administrative staff, was helping to structure all of that. And at one point, late at night, after a very long day of work. He was like, hey, we need to have a holding company for the business and we need to give it a name. And I was just like, we just call it That's what she said. And he was like, Yes, we can.

19:32

So you're holding company. Is that what she said?

19:35

It's TW SS?

19:37

Yeah. That's great. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

19:44

Nobody knows. It's all on it. And yeah, just on these legal documents every once in a while I see a document I'm like, Oh my God. That's right. Our company is.

19:55

Oh, man, I mean, obviously I hope that you never have a situation where you have to go into court for any reason at all. However, that would be hilarious to have to constantly be saying like

20:13

oh my god, that would be amazing. Yeah. Oh, me there'll be a video going viral.

20:20

That would be a great marketing scheme to do there. The public benefit corporation, what is your public benefit? What is it you have to kind of maintain on what is the mission that you're focused on?

20:34

Yeah, our mission is sustainably sourcing herbs from traditional growing regions and promoting quality herbal education. So each one of those things has a different meaning and quality, like traditional growing regions means that we're getting them from the cultures that these herbs come from, as much as possible. Occasionally, that's not possible for environmental reasons or whatever. But that lifts the culture, then it gives, it circulates the money within the culture, which was that herb comes from, and you get increased potency and quality. There's this concept in herbalism, called geo authenticity. And so when you get the herb from where it's indigenous form, you get better because that's where it's supposed to have those minerals that are in the soil, it's supposed to have that climate, you know, all that kind of stuff. And then sustainability. I mean, we're looking at sustainability left, right, and center all many different ways. And then herbal education. You know, we're an herb company, we just happen to do it in the form of coffee alternatives.

21:31

Where are most of this stuff sourced,

21:33

we have over 50 herbs from 15 countries. So we get a lot from India and China. My co-founder and I were just in India actually visiting our primary supplier. They're absolutely amazing company, what they're doing, and then also a new supplier that we're going to start working with. So we get I think before we got seven herbs from India, now we're increasing that to 11. Because we found there are more herbs that we could get from there. And then some from China. And just a side note to anyone listening, you might be like China is a polluted cesspool, there are places that are really not and we are getting ours from one of the most pristine and gorgeous, the largest Nature Preserve in China is absolutely stunningly beautiful. And so and it's very, very far from the cities and very hard to get to. So yeah, China, we have and then you know, we have herbs from around the world, like we get our chicory from France we have our cacao comes from Ecuador, we get our coffee between Mexico and Sumatra, depending on the time of year. We have an amazing herb called selenium that we get from South Africa and partnership with a South African tribe down there. Because it's sacred to them, to their culture there. And that's an herb that people call if you Google it, you'll see like nature's MDMA. It's very good for the mood that's in our super happy sunshine bland. I highly recommend that one.

22:58

Super happy sunshine. Yeah. What Uh, okay, so you started four years ago? Which puts us in 2018. Ish, correct? We are at launch. Exactly. Then. So obviously, you went through 2020 and 2021 sourcing product in 15 different countries, all the ones that I heard, well, not all of them, but most Summit, mostly are Arabs coming in Asia. What was the past two years like for you like at the supply chain and all that fun stuff, and then shut down and all that, like, how did you guys get through that we,

23:32

we got lucky. And somewhat lucky. And the other thing is, we do a different the way we source our herbs we do what's called relationship buying. So your buying, most people do price buying, they're just looking at, it's cheaper. They're great. I'm getting it there. Oh, they have a cheaper price. Now I'm getting it over there. We build a relationship with our suppliers. And if their prices go up, because they had a drought that year, we generally stick with them. If it's really prohibitive, if it is prohibitive, then we may buy half from them and then half from somebody else to bring the cost down or something like that. But, you know, we just spent five days with our supplier in India, you know, like we're going to temples we're staying at their house, we're eating food with them like they we know them and they know us and we're gonna go back and visit later this year. And our Chinese supplier has, you know, been to my house for dinner. You know, we've my co-founder has been there and spent a week there at their farms they're so when shit hit the fan, they called us because they care about us. And they have bigger, bigger suppliers to like they have people that write bigger checks way bigger checks than we do. But because they actually give a fuck about who we are. If we talk about who they are, then you know, it's just like your friends. You're like, Hey, I've got something coming down the pipeline, you need anything. And at the time we didn't we actually were like we're cool because we bought way ahead of our schedule. In part, because We were, you know, we're always just a little bit scared about those kinds of things. So we're staying years ahead on as much as we can because our herbs have a really long shelf life as well. So that gives us the opportunity to hold on to it for a longer time. So freight costs have gone up a lot, for sure. But we have not had major issues so far. may continue. Fingers crossed. Yeah. And the other, we have backup suppliers for all of our suppliers. And for most of them, we have backups for our backups. And so you know, if, if something does hit the fan, and if worse comes to worst to there often, many of the times we can buy the herbs from a different location, the concept of geo authenticity, we're trying to go for where it should, where it comes from, but we can get a lot of our herbs from other countries as well, and so often at a much, much higher cost as well. So that's one of the considerations. But that's, you know if it really hit the fan, we could go that route. Yeah.

26:05

So we had Jay Meyers one of the founders of bolt Commerce on the show. And all we talked about was subscription stuff. And you had mentioned that you obviously kind of ended up pivoting a little bit and getting into more of a subscription model. How did you end up doing that? What was your approach? Did you just flip a switch and say, like, now we offer a subscription? Or is there any kind of extra value added when someone subscribes?

26:31

Yeah, there's been a lot of testing around that. So we had a subscription program before that, but it was very, it was casual, you know, it was like, well, they can pick the button and say, subscriptions may save some money. And we had no retention efforts, nothing to guide them towards that, you know, it was I think we did a 15% discount or something. So we a be tested discount levels, I think we did 1520 and 2520 ended up being the winner. I think there was no difference between 20 and 25. For us, I believe. And so we're like, alright, let's just not take the margin hit. And let's see, we added a free herbal console. So people can get a free consult with our clinical herbalist who's not affiliated with rasa, we have a network that we've gathered for this. And so that's another perk that they get free shipping. And so we put together a bit of a subscription program, we started out with a lot of freebies, initially, and that ended up just it didn't significantly change retention. It did improve conversion, but it washed out with retention. So we realized, you know, people are like, Oh, free stuff. Great. I'll cancel. And so we kind of ate our hat on that. And we're like, okay, we're not going to do quite so much on that front. But, yeah, so we've been, that was the first of it was just sort of developing the subscription programs starting to do, you know, subscription flows. And, you know, helping to train our customer care team, in terms of, you know, both navigating the portal and helping their customers navigate the portal, but also, how do we see if we can retain them if they want to cancel. And then the other major thing that we did was just adjusting the customer journey flow on our website, so that basically, the first thing that you get to is like, subscribe today, you know, like, this is a subscription product, whereas before, it was a little bit more of a side note, and changing that focus. And we're gonna be doing more work along those lines and doing landing pages in that vein, all of that is just helping so that the E-commerce experience is just keeps pointing them towards this is a subscription product product product, you want to subscribe, we do, you know, limited edition releases to our subscribers we do early releases of or like early samples of new products often and surprise and delight and stuff like that. And so all of that goes towards like, hey, these people are treated really well. Do you want to be in that club?

29:02

Smart. I like it. Yeah. I don't want to take up too much of your time. But I always like to end with kind of one more personalized question that I always find very interesting. A lot of sellers we talk with because I'm almost at every point now the answer has been different. What is it that drives you personally, to keep getting up and pushing you throughout this entire episode? You are one of the most impressive people we've had on the show, you know your business inside and out the sum of the avenues you went? No, no one I've had on the show would have ever thought of it. So I'm very interested to hear like, what is it that gets you to just keep going and what's driving you to keep trucking along with rasa?

29:45

Hmm. Three things come to mind. First and foremost, curiosity really drives me and there's a lot of curiosity about what would happen if I hold the big, hairy audacious goal of changing our culture's relationship to energy and making a dent in the coffee market. Like I just want 1%. So, like, if I hold that, that curiosity, what happens if we hit that? You know, and I keep it connected to the vision that it just keeps me going, like, well, what? And then you know, that happens. That's the macro level on another micro level, it's like, well, what happens if we AV test this? And what happens? You know, for customers, we launched this product, what happens if we call it to poop?

30:28

Outsold out fast.

30:32

So curiosity is a big one. The joy of creating is another one. I just really like seeing things happen in the world. And, you know, getting to do that and feeling like it's really in alignment with my values. So it doesn't there's no, I'm not having to flex around, you know, moral and ethical decisions. It's just like, hey, this is coming from my heart. And then I did have a third one, and I totally

31:01

forgot how it happens. Yeah,

31:05

curiosity, the joy of creating. And there was, if it comes back, I'll go out there.

31:09

That's a secret. We'll throw it in the show notes. would thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate you having me on the show. I would love to get him in here. Let everyone know where else they can find out more about RASA. Oh, yeah.

31:22

We are rasa.com. And if you use the discount code, E-Comm Show, then you'll get 15% off, or you can just drive and get 20% off. It's a better deal.

31:33

There you go. Smart. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. Of course, everyone who tuned in thank you as well, please make sure you head over to ecommshow.com. Check out all of our other episodes, where you can also rate reviews, and subscribe to us on any podcast platform that you like, or YouTube, of course. But as usual, thank you all for joining us. And we'll see you all next time. Have a good one. Do you remember it? I did. Go ahead. Go ahead. No, well,

31:56

we'll use Yeah. Yeah, oh, yes. Using customer reviews. And anytime I'm sad. I just go through a review channel on Slack or on our funder page in what people say about why they invested and I'm just like, Okay, we're doing a good thing.

32:13

Like that. That's good. That's that one I get. I've gotten a couple of times with we funder thing. That's interesting. That's definitely like something I would say for this episode to look into. Because I really appreciate that approach. It's pretty cool to be able to get like kind of self-serve and make it like a cycle.

32:30

I really recommend it I think, I think it's the wave of the future, especially for early stage capital. And it's a lot of work though. Don't underestimate that.

32:39

Everything you've done was a lot of work Same with the Divi Corp. But thank you so much. We'll see you all next time. Have a good one.

32:47

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