While product selection is vital, the power of familiar branding and storytelling is tenfold. On this 145th episode of the E-Comm Show, Andrew Maff interviews Carrie Van Winkle Greener Co-Founder of Pappy & Company.
In this episode, Carrie shows us how to leverage a brand’s legacy and the importance of storytelling in branding. It's not just about selling products; it's about creating an emotional connection with your customers. By sharing the rich history and heritage behind their brand, Pappy & Company has been able to create a loyal following of customers who are passionate about their products
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The Power of Branding with Pappy & Company
Andrew Maff and Carrie Van Winkle Greener
CONNECT WITH OUR HOST: AndrewMaff.com | Twitter: @AndrewMaff | LinkedIn: @AndrewMaff
Carrie Van Winkle Greener
As the great-granddaughters of bourbon legend, Pappy Van Winkle, Carrie and her sisters Louise and Chenault were inspired by their family's legacy to build a lifestyle brand that would embody the core values of their heritage while introducing it to a new generation. Since its inception in 2013, Pappy & Company has evolved, offering their signature barrel-aged and bourbon inspired gourmet food and cocktail collection, premium cigars, home and bar decor and accessories, apparel and gifts while maintaining their original commitment to quality, dedication to craftsmanship, and passion for bourbon and hospitality. Pappy & Company is headquartered in their hometown of Louisville, Kentucky, while Carrie calls Sun Valley Idaho home with her husband and two young sons.
00:03
I still say to this day that because we have such a personalized brand and there's so much storytelling behind our products, I still feel like we don't do it well enough. There's more to say and more to do, Everyone, hello and welcome to another episode of The E-Comm Show as usual. I'm your host, Andrew Maff, and today I'm joined by Carrie, who's the co founder of Pappy and Company. Carrie, how you doing? You ready to do this?
01:16
Great. Yes, I'm glad to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah,
01:20
I'm super excited to have you on the show. I am a big pappy fan. I'm a big just bourbon drinker in general, so I was, it's hard for me to do this episode without a glass in my hand, which says a lot. But super excited to have you on the show. Really looking forward to learning a lot. I always like to start these off in a very stereotypical way, where you can tell us a little bit more about yourself, and then, of course, more about pappy and company, and we'll take it from
01:44
there. Yeah. So I'm Carrie Van Winkle Greener. My main name's Van Winkle, so that'll tell you that my family's in the bourbon business, which nowadays it's crazy. How many people know about it, and or people like you who are obsessed with bourbon, so it's kind of fun. But my great grandfather is pappy Van Winkle, so I'm fourth generation in the family business, and so we have that, that great heritage to talk about. 10 years ago, I started a pappy and company with my two sisters. It was a way for us to get involved with the family business and a creative way to sell cool stuff, basically, so really fun merchandise and things that are important or traditions in our own lives that we want to share with others. So obviously pappy Smoking Cigar on the label is indicative of our pappy company brand. So really premium, high end cigars are one of our biggest sellers. And we also do things like barrel aged food, like maple syrup and hot sauce and chocolates and caramels and coffee. And so we like to use those special barrels and make really delicious products. And then we have barware and accessories. So we truly are a lifestyle brand inspired by our heritage,
03:01
that is awesome. So is it like, Would you say it's kind of like, is it part of the pappy brand, or is it kind of like its own entities, for most part?
03:11
Good question. It's been an evolution since we started it 10 years ago. We had no idea really what we were doing. We just came up with an idea and launched it. But we I own the company with my two sisters, so we're the sole owners, but we're in a licensing agreement, so with the distillery, which is our larger family business. And so anything we sell with those trademarks we share with them. So we like to say that we're, you know, we have this umbrella of a family business, and pappy and company falls under that. Yeah, it's
03:45
a very interesting idea, because, I mean, Pappy is a massive brand, so you've essentially,
03:52
it's just well known,
03:53
well very true. So it's not, it's not part it's not easy to find. I can guarantee you that. So very interesting. So what gave you the idea to kind of start this with you and your sisters? Well, it
04:07
actually came a couple ways. There was a few things that my brother, working for my dad and the distillery side, had made, like some branded polo shirts and hats and sweatshirts. And people were always saying, oh my gosh, where'd you get that shirt I want it. And then my sister actually sold an old, old rip biblical sweatshirt on eBay one day. And she couldn't she was blown away that she got she made 50 bucks on this used, old drip sweatshirt. But other than that, so it really started with more of a need for some promotional products associated with this famous bourbon brand that had nothing, no merch, related to it. And so that was our initial thought, and then very quickly it really evolved into more of this creative partnership with other brands, like the cigars we like to say, like we don't make. We're not the experts in making premium cigars, but we. Partner with those people, or we're not the maple farmers. We partner with the maple farmer who has an exceptional product with our exceptional bourbon barrels, creates a product that you can't find anywhere else on the market. So that's really what's been driving us since then. But it started from a need for people wanting cool, branded merch, yeah,
05:19
what's, uh, so what's the the makeup of the group is there? What's like? What's your role? What are your sister's role? Like, who, who manages? What?
05:28
It's a good question. So there's three sisters where identical triplets actually, but two of us are the ones who have really worked in the business and built the business. The Third sister, she has her design, interior design business that keeps her from working with us day to day, but I like to say that I run the front end of the business. I definitely more of the creative marketing, product development gal, and then Louise, we say, runs the back end, so she's boots on the ground, and runs more of the ops and finances. So I definitely have nice fun, the fun for fun, but
06:03
I would say it's the fun part.
06:05
But we definitely mix. We're still very heavily involved in all aspects of the business. So, you know, I'll say Louise is part of mine, my roles, and I'm part of her. So because we still have a small team and wear a lot of hats,
06:20
nice. So the you've got the marketing side, which is obviously my favorite side, what is that approach kind of been because obviously you have the the obvious benefit of being able to, kind of like, piggyback off of the existing brand name. But even when you first launch, you know, a website, it doesn't just, like, all of a sudden get traffic and start doing sales. So what was the approach to start alerting people that this product line was available?
06:48
You know, for years it was very organic, and we were just really focused on the quality of the products and really trying to tell the story on the website. So that's all we thought about for years. We actually, and I think it's I told you, I'm like, I don't know if you want me on your show. I'm like, I'm not a marketing expert. And I've, I've built the business from the ground up for the last 10 years, but with a lot of help. And so, you know, I still, to this day, don't call myself like a marketing expert, even though, you know, been a part of this journey from from the from the bottom up, but yeah, so now we obviously really are more strategic in all types of ways with our marketing. But at first it was truly just selling a really good product and caring the most about the quality.
07:38
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08:14
You know, that was just an organic thing that we did, and looking back, it was, you know, instilled in us that that's how to start a business. But then through that growth of being able to gain momentum with those great products, it just has evolved into more of complicated, you know, doing lots of different things, but, yeah, I can talk about some specifics if you want, but as you
08:43
say, so, what? Who, who does the execution of the different marketing tactics? Is it yourself, or you have a team? Like, what's that approach?
08:51
Well, I've always depended on a team. I feel like, for me, I'm kind of, like the high level, more overall brand image creative, you know, Vision type of stuff. And then, luckily, the people around me have been able to take that in and implement it. We've all like starting out. We actually, you know, I will say a bonus to having this name is that we got some really cheap work with some great digital marketing people, and so we early on, I think that was probably a big part of our success. Is where they really helped us with, you know, our brand positioning, creating brand guidelines, even, you know, tone and voice, and not to say that that's easy, you know, but at least we had a foundation and a template to work from. I still say to this day, to this day, that I because we have such a personalized brand and there's so much storytelling behind our products, I still feel like we don't do it well enough. There's more to say and more to. Do, because I truly feel like that's what sells our products. Is this the story behind them? And that's so hard to do. You know, it takes a lot of resources, money, video, new content all the time. It's, it's, it's a lot. But yeah, so then, first, we just hired a digital firm that was really, you know, we had a monthly retainer, and they helped us with everything from, well we did like our own photos for a while, but literally everything, imagery to copy to email campaigns, analytics, you know, they ran the gamut. And then about five years into the business, we hired a marketing director, and so that's where we are right now. So we're on our second marketing director, and we have, we do pretty much social media in house. We have another digit. We've had multiple digital agencies throughout so we truly have a marketing director, and then we partner with a great firm, nice.
11:17
So the overall approach, has it primarily been digital, or do you doing anything on the traditional side? You know, billboards, brochures, TV, radio, that
11:27
kind of stuff. It's all digital. I think because we, um, started with E commerce in our basement, and we've just evolved with the digital aspect of E com, but we do have, I don't know, like 70% of our business is wholesale, and so we do work with retailers. But then, in regards to traditional advertising, we've dabbled in a little bit of magazines and but, yeah, we don't have the budget to really test any big dogs out there in regards to traditional advertising, um, but we just, we have not seen any real return on that, and so we're just really focused on digital, yeah,
12:17
and correct me if I'm wrong, but the the parent brand, the pappy, the drink itself, like there's not a lot of marketing going on there either. The really, it's the it's the best marketing you possibly can do, which is essentially just really focusing on the product in itself, and making sure you're putting out arguably some of the best product available.
12:39
Yeah. I mean, I will say it seems so simple and kind of basic, but I think a lot of the world that we live in today, a lot of people get so caught up in the marketing of it and spending a ton of money for ad campaigns and, you know, paid stuff. I think there obviously you have to play in that realm, but it doesn't. I think you're kind of flipping this. It needs to be flipped. You know, you can't try to just market something without a truly great product. You know that, you know that there's a niche for or that is exceptional, is
13:17
the, is the strategy at all kind of around, like, community building, like, I would imagine, you know, your biggest benefit being your brand can be where people come to talk about the pappy brand. So you're just building, like, Hey, Fan Base, come hang out here, kind of thing. And so, like, your social and email and that kind of stuff is all just pappy focused, correct?
13:41
Yeah. I mean, it's interesting you say that, because I think that is a goal of ours, to be more community driven. And we do want to show that we're real people on digital, you know, living real lives similar, very similar to yours. And we're not anything that, actually, we were just like, just like, you. You know, people think like, oh, Pappy, let's this big, far off thing. It's not right here with you. And so I think that's what we're trying to show digitally, that we enjoy these products. That's why we want to share them with you. But we do want to be more literally, community focused in bringing people together and having events and places for that, and so that actually is our next thing to work on. Is, you know, a space experiences things like that.
14:35
Oh, so are you thinking of opening your own like brick and mortar and doing retail, or are you thinking like pop up shop kind of stuff. Well, we
14:42
do have retail space in Louisville, where our headquarters is in little area called nulu, which is outside of downtown, on the outskirts of downtown Louisville. But we're, we're working on an experience there, so look more to come. Interesting.
15:00
Thing, can you expand on that? What do you mean by like an experience? Because this sounds like my somewhere
15:05
and have a drink and also experience the history more and the brand itself. Because I think there's also a stretch in our family history that you know about pappy, you've learned about the sitzer Weller distillery. But the reason we're here today is because of my dad. And what my dad resurrected with the family business, because in 1972 his Poppy's distillery, they had to my grandfather, Poppy's son, had to sell the distillery. And so what my dad was left with was one label, and just had to rebuild everything from the ground up. And so there's a lot of history there as well, and we want to honor that. And it's truly, you know, the more current past, yeah, however, I'm trying to say that I know you mean, that's awesome. We want, yeah, we want to honor our grandfather. We want to honor our dad. You know, the story, there's still lots to tell and lots to experience. And there's really no, I mean, Buffalo Trace our partner, you can obviously go to Buffalo Trace where the where the whiskey is made, but they don't have a specific experience for packing when you're there. And I think there's no better place for us to do that ourselves. Wow,
16:17
that is awesome. I will definitely be coming there soon. Yeah,
16:23
a lot of work to do on it, but it's definitely gonna happen at some point.
16:27
That's awesome from pivoting back to the E commerce side. Sorry, that always happens. So I know obviously you sell on your website. Have you explored selling anywhere else? Have you done the whole Amazon, Walmart, that kind
16:39
of thing? No, I wish I had someone else on my team to talk more about that. We go back and forth. Yeah, we've gotten ready to in the past, then we haven't. We've always, you know, there's obviously been years where it's like, we don't want to cheapen our brand by being on Amazon, but also it's a huge sales channel that we know some people, that's the basis for, foundation for their business. So I wish I could speak more educatedly on that and our decision around that, yeah, but it's not off the table, but we haven't.
17:15
Yeah, I understand. I mean, look to your point, it's, it's a common question for businesses that build these bigger brands online that haven't gotten in the marketplace a lot of times, the question is, like, do we go to Amazon? Because it's it does have, like, uh, to your point, like, a cheapening kind of connotation to it, and because it's always to, you know, everyone on Amazon, it's a race to the bottom, who's the cheapest. And so for a brand that doesn't want to be the cheapest, it's not always the best place. So that definitely makes a lot of sense. Yeah, for the sales that you do have coming through the website, what's kind of the more top channels? Is it like the social media approach? Are you doing any paid advertising? Like, what's what? What are those directions?
17:59
This is where. Again, I wish I had someone on my team to help me. Social media has always been a struggle for us. It's not a revenue driver. Yeah,
18:07
I would not expect that.
18:10
I know we need help with that, so anybody wants to reach out, but yeah, paid advertising. We've just in regards to Google, we do paid, paid social, we do paid Google, yeah, but, and it has grown over the years, you know, our our budget for that, and I don't, I don't
18:40
know what's, what's the thought on the product line in itself. Like, when I think, you know, okay, I'm going to distillery and they've got merch. You have the usual, like, your T shirts, your hats, that kind of stuff. You've obviously expanded into many different things. What's the thought, are you going to continue to expand the product line? Or what's like the methodology around the products that you've already gone into?
19:06
Yeah, well, our driver is definitely more of that the food category, I think, mainly because it connects so closely to the bourbon, because we use the actual barrels and a lot of the product products get, you know, age in the barrels. They they get that bourbon flavor from the barrel. And so, I mean, that's pretty special. If you can't drink the bourbon, you get these special food products. But this is where I'm like, gosh, yeah, I could. I could ask everyone on your show what we should do, because I think part of our drive is to create, you know, these larger, more expansive categories that aren't so connected to the bourbon because they're us in our lives and our traditions and our heritage that we're pulling from that can mean farware and home goods. And things like that that we feel fit really well, but our customer base is still heavily influenced by the bourbon. You know, the closer it is to the bourbon, so that's been a struggle for us, yeah, so, but then I'm like, Well, other other brands can do it, you know, why can't we? Why can't we expand into other categories, but, you know, we're struggling with how to do that, you know what? What's the strategy behind that, where we go out and find those new customers?
20:28
Yeah, and so when you especially for the food side of things, are you doing that through, like a co packer, or do you have someone that, like in house, that's cooking this stuff
20:37
we know we have, so we still work with partners usually. So, you know, decide we want to, we're coming out with some new cocktail mixers, like we one of them is going to be a new an existing partner, and then we're coming up with another, a smoked line using our barrels to smoke food. And that's a new partner. And so we really found that we like working with other small brands with the same, you know, values, and together create something really cool, because they're like the experts in that field. And so I think it is able, it's a great way for us to be able to expand our product offerings, and know that we're really working with great products and partners, and we know exactly where the products are coming from. So, and I think it, you know, honestly, is a is a strategy, and not having to have those resources in house as well. So they make our products for us in a really true partnership.
21:44
Yeah, it's awesome. It's the coolest concept. I'm a big fan, so I love the when I came across you guys, was like, Oh, this is going to be super interesting. I was so excited. I want go ahead. Sorry.
21:59
I was impressed. You thought of us, and so appreciate
22:03
you. Yeah, I appreciate you being on the show. I don't want to take up too much more your time. I know you're slammed and all that fun stuff, so I don't want to bother you, but I would love to give you the opportunity let everyone know where they can find about find out more about you, and, of course, more about pappy and company. Yeah,
22:17
so our website is pappyco.com, and everything is right there. I mean, we sell retailers across the country. It's not a vast list, but I think we do have a retailer list on our website, if you want to look that up. But we're always, you know, I truly like to say that we are the people behind the screen. So if you email, email us all of our website, all of our emails are on there. We obviously answer the phone when you call. So we're happy to answer any questions, but we're easy to find perfect and yeah, I think our Instagram is pappy and CO
22:50
Beautiful. Yeah, Carrie, thank you so much for being on the show. Obviously, everyone who tuned in, thank you as well. Please make sure you do the usual rate review, subscribe all that fun stuff on whichever podcast platform you prefer, or head over to theecommshow.com to check out all of our previous episodes as usual. Thank you all for joining us. See you all next time.
23:10
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