So you know your product is good, and you have the facts to prove it. But are you speaking your customer's language? On this 171st episode of the E-Comm Show, Andrew Maff interviews Angela Zeng, Founder of Karviva Beverages. By focusing on education, credibility, and meeting customers' needs firsthand, Karviva stands out from its competitors and continues to thrive due to Angela's attention to detail and pride in her mission.
In this episode, you'll learn about the importance of educating consumers and how to shift toward a customer-centric approach. Even if you're not a doctor like Angela, she'll walk you through some of the ways to lend credibility to your brand so your customers trust it. Whether you're in the wellness industry or not, you’ll gain valuable insight on how to step out of your "lab coat" and into your customer's shoes.
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Andrew Maff and Angela Zeng
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Angela Zeng
As the visionary founder of Karviva Beverages, Angela Zeng has revolutionized the wellness beverage industry by marrying the ancient wisdom of Traditional Chinese Medicine with cutting-edge nutritional science. With an impressive academic foundation in biochemistry, pathology, and an MBA, Angela’s deep-rooted heritage in Traditional Chinese Medicine propelled her to innovate Karviva’s celebrated line of whole plant-based prebiotic smoothies, antioxidant juices, and more. Each beverage is crafted to support digestive health, immune system strength, clean protein intake, and sustained energy levels.
00:03
For me, is a venue for me to share this ancient wisdom backed by modern science with everyone.
00:17
And I want a good show, damn it. Great show, an awesome job. Yes, my dad said it was
00:42
the another episode
00:47
of the Econ show you. And hello everyone. And welcome to another episode of the E comm Show. I'm your host, Andrew MAFF, and today I am joined by the amazing Dr, Angela Zhang of carviva beverages. Beverages, I got it. Doctor, how you doing? You ready for good show?
01:17
Hi, Andrew. I'm doing great today. It's just beautiful outside. Makes me want to go out take a walk, right? I mean, it's still pretty cold outside. We got some snow, but I really appreciate this opportunity just to share my two cents with your audience, yeah, wonderful. I'm
01:35
super excited to have you on the show your beautiful weather you had mentioned before we started here. You're in St Louis, correct? Yes,
01:41
I'm in St Louis. Have Been here for 30 plus years.
01:45
Oh, then you must love it. Tell me a little bit about, obviously, so that's where carviva got started. Tell me a little about, like, your background and how you got started there in St Louis. Yeah,
01:55
yeah. St Louis is not the typical region you would find a product like or a brand like COVID. So very true about my background. The reason I moved to San Luis from China, like I said, 30 years ago, sort of 30 plus years ago, was for my graduate school study. So I come here for PhD in pathology after I complete my undergraduate in biochemistry, but my family heritage, you know, my culture and my family heritage has always been traditional Eastern medicine. So I have quite a few relatives, close relatives, my aunts, my uncle, well recognized the figures in the acupuncture field and women's health herbal medicine field. So since I was little, I kind of started to play around herbal remedies. I just loved them. For me, it was my toys, my coffee, even though, I mean, all these days is a real business, but I went down the path of more like classic science field. It's my both my my parents, they they're classic trained chemists, you know, chemical engineers, which is, you know, very sophisticated field. So I went down that path biochemistry. And for me, it was never one field is glamorous, is all scientific driven, the other field is more like widow, which is practice for me, actually, I have seen perfect harmony between the two. So for me, it's not about remedy is all time test, but there's no clear cut clinical study or evidence to support the efficacy. Actually, there are tons of clinical study research to help us understand why particular compounds are working. You know, doesn't matter whether they are anti inflammatory or antibacterial, or help us to prolong lifestyle lifespan. For example, a compound in Chaba one of our whole plant juice just about a few years ago, right before pandemic. This, this publication by prestige Research Group locate particular compounds in this amazing super green has protective if effect chromosome and also stimulate this kind of mycophage activity, which is kind of help ourselves to clean out all those junks. So for me, I'm fast, always fascinated about those, those things. So that actually leads to me kind of started car Viva brand. It's basically more than selling healthy wellness beverages, juices, juice cleansers, detox juice for me, is a venue for me to share this ancient wisdom backed by modern science with everyone. Yeah. Yeah.
05:00
So one of the things I was thinking the whole time as you're giving me this background, okay, I actually understand a pretty good amount of this. My my whole family definitely is really getting more into that element, right? Like, just, I don't even know how to explain it, but I also know that the average consumer is not the smartest person in the world, and probably can't even spell half of the words that you just used. So what I'm always interested in is, when you come up with something like this that just has this, it's more of, like a clean element to it where you're, you know, using more herbs and, like, actual things that you can find in nature, as opposed to, you know, what you're making in the lab. How do you actually market that and actually adjust the messaging so that the average consumer understands, like, what it's going to do for them?
05:50
Excellent question. That's the challenge for many scientists based business person, including myself, to market their products, because classic, trained scientists like to think like a scientist, researcher. That's who we are. So sometimes, for most of the inventors or product makers, right? We love to think our babies are the most beautiful baby in the world, and suppose everyone understand what we are talking about. I would say, is through this constant interaction with the real shoppers. So when I first started, the first two years, every weekend, I would camp in different stores doing sampling, offering free product samples. Well, if they like the sample, the shopper would go grab my product on the shelf. So of course, that's everyone knows. Sampling is one of the most effective tools you have to promote to sell your product. But for me, it was for me to interact with real shoppers, my target shoppers, who you know, basically is in a real battleground. Compare my product with 1000s, I mean, not you know, so many other bottles on the shelf, and then why they would choose my product and to understand what do they care? What kind of terms they understand? So for me, is about constant tweaking. And also one thing I really learned, which is really hard, I can give you an example. When I first attend Expo West, that was in 2018 2018 I know nothing about this industry, trade show the you know most well attend trade show, and I had a tiny little booth. So when I was preparing my trade show materials, like brochures, flyers, boa finers, all those things, one of my friend mentioned to me, you gotta have an eye catching word. I'm like, I don't know about this eye catching word, right? So finally, I say, How about prebiotic fiber? Because as a scientist, I realized one of the key nutrition people kind of were ignoring is the fiber. I mean, fiber is not a glamorous way to say, but it's really prebiotic. Prebiotic is so important because, you know, I understand why, how it interact with good bacterias in our guts, and why it's so important. So I put that ironer behind my boost. Guess what? My boost was packed, jam packed with people, especially folks from the r, d divisions of all the large companies, fiber. Is this the next hot trend? That was the first time it's like, oh, they are all looking for the next hot trend. And surprisingly, until my I was still very pleased pre modified or become the top trend. Now, right? I mean, it was not a new word for medical doctors or nutrition scientists, but it was definitely new for food and beverage folks, and they latched that on, and some people did a wonderful job, I think, in terms of doing the right product format and marketing and sell them so well. Now most of the consumer nowadays days understand pretty badly it's important for us, I think, is finding keep listening to your target audience. Finding the right words for me is like, even now these days, I feel like, well, my drink, this drink, is more than boost immunity, but I have to settle down with one word, because, for the sake of the reason, if I drill down, oh my gosh, has this compound that helps you, you stay inside yourselves, that pathway in your gut. I mean, gosh, people will totally get lost. I understand, you know, when I was a PhD student, I some of the seminars, webinars, I refuse to go because it's boring and they actually lure. Us, you know, PhD students using donuts, free pizzas, junk food, of course. So you're right. And then the other thing, I think, for most of the E commerce brand owners, is, obviously, if you're selling Amazon, you have so many tools, you don't even have to pay. Amazon provides so much data. You can look at the key search terms, the top search terms, you can look at the keywords rankings. And then, usually, I mean that to me, that's basically understand what's going inside of your target shoppers mind when they are looking for product, right, like yours. And then is up to the brand owner, you know, whether you can develop the product matching that interests, and you can highlight that interests with a good reason, because I also see many product highlight some features on their labels, on their product listing. However, if you cannot deliver those features, it ends up just become one time purchase, which is extremely costly. Is
11:10
that kind of like keyword research, also how you figure out going into, like, new product lines and expanding the product line. Because you, you know, listening to talk, it's amazing. And you're I can hear the health benefits behind it, but then you look at your product line, and you've got so many options between, I know you said an immunity, you have a detox, you have a sports drink. So you've got all of these different elements that all have these types of ingredients behind them. How did you kind of decipher which new products to get into? Was it from that keyword research side or something else? Yeah,
11:43
it's, I will say it's both. I would for me, I emphasize more understanding real shoppers needs. That's by basically we're still actually running the most, not in, I mean, in, only in highly select stores. For us is to keep engaging with real shoppers, because they only have few minutes to spare with you, and that gives us tons of info. This is what exactly they need, you know, because there are so many options there. And most shoppers nowadays, they get confused. They got confused. They got frustrated. And most of the products and still not offering the real solutions or outcomes they are looking for. The other thing is for me to develop new products. We all know, for e commerce owners, it's important to roll out new products. You know, even though New Product launching are very costly, especially on the retail side, is extremely costly. I think on E commerce you can still, you know, have a better control over that, but in store, you have to go through this lengthy review process, and then sometimes, I mean, most retailers now demand good amount of slotting fee, which is a huge entry barrier for most of the brand owners. But on E commerce is very different. So roll out new product is really for you to understand. What are your target shoppers and my needs? To me is about that is they they have, let's say, if they have this hydration drink from you, what else do they need? If they love your brand, what else they want? They want to buy from you is not about, to me, it's not about Of course, you can. I mean, there are so many folks out there try to offer this service. Oh, I can help you to find a new product. I can even help you to source and have it make overseas and launch that Amazon, whatever platform you like. However, for me, that's that's more like where you can take that chance, but is a hit or miss, and there are so many things you don't know. I mean, obviously, if you have good amount of money, extra savings, you can try it out. But on the other side, it's always better to understand. You know, what's your expertise? What? What are your passion? You know, passion with educating people about this ancient healing wisdom. That's what I'm truly passionate about. That's why I like to spend my time on different podcasts programs. Is about educating folks to make the better choice for themselves. So for me, no brainer. I stick with the product line I have, and it's really hard for me to do. Most people would say, Oh, how about you just do one kombucha line and then 20 different flavor for me, that's not in line with my mission, my vision. You see what I'm saying. But someone who just say, Well, I just want to have a product in the market, see if I can make some money. Yes, nothing wrong with that. You can take that approach. I think it all depends what you what was you? What's the driven force? Because. Buying this expensive tests?
15:04
Yeah, I completely agree. We get it. We do a whole show on why people pick certain product lines. Well, we'll stick to yours for this one. So you obviously mentioned you're on you sell on Amazon. We already know that you have your own website. A, what other sales channels are you on? If any, and then be like, what are your top ones right now? Yeah,
15:23
we just started Walmart marketplace. So for me, still learning, I have to say, when I first started, just this year, I got really frustrated because compared to, not compare. But to be fair, Walmart stress is has always been in store. You know, they're the king of, you know, cost saving items in store, and they're just doing everything so well part of an online marketplace. They you cannot. I feel like, to be fair, I should not compare them with Amazon, because Amazon has so many data, so many tools you can use. Walmart has basic stuff there you can use, however, whenever there's an issue, right? Like, I got issue with setting up the deals this seriously. I mean, it just always get stuck something then, like, I have to file a case. It's not like with Amazon, you can request a phone call within a minute with Walmart, you have to be patient, wait for a reply. So that's very different. But on the other side, I feel like for grocery items, that's still a channel we cannot miss. And then the other thing we just started is tick tock. It's also very new for us, tick tock, I have to say, for us right now, we just link Tiktok to our Amazon store. So because it's just easy for that fulfillment side, we have already spread too thin, so it's hard for us to fulfill our own orders and then take care of the Tiktok customer service for us right now, on the E commerce side, Amazon is, is definitely our number one, you know, but that's, that's the place we feel like we get, get lots of data. We also sell product on our own website. But for us, that's more like interfacing with our customers and then understanding, you know, their shopping behaviors, but Amazon also give you tons of data, you can kind of get a good picture if you if you're willing to drill deep into those data. And then retail channel is so important for us. So I have to say, with a consumer brand like in functional food and beverages now these days, it is, it is a challenge that you have to do, which is not easy.
17:47
I was that was actually perfect segue. I appreciate that, because that was kind of going into what I wanted to ask you next. We've done a ton of work in the CBG space, and I know that the most common problem is, you know, you had mentioned, like being in stores and giving samples and samples and things like that, you can try it, and then you can, obviously, they can decide to make the purchase online. That's way harder, right? Like they can't taste it. They have to make the commitment to purchase it and then receive it, and because of shipping, and you know, the justification around that you've usually got to buy, like a six pack or bigger or something like that, so you're kind of making a good sized commitment. How are you helping bridge that gap in terms of people's taste buds versus them actually making the purchase?
18:32
Yeah, that's outstanding question, and I heard other brand owners frequently raise this question. It is, it is, I mean, for my, even for my, I mean, I'm a consumer myself, right? I mean, I don't like to purchase food and drinks online, for the exact reason you said, because, especially, we do our own manufacturing. So my concern would be quality control and then shipping and handling storage by a third party, right? Because it's not like selling a textile products or toothpaste. It's totally different. So I think one thing is credibility building, the brand credibility building becomes so important, and then the only way to do that nowadays days, for if you're only online, I feel like then is really working with content creators, influencers. Because, I mean, for our own website selling, we actually offer free sample if you purchase a case, we give you a free bottle. Sometimes we even throw in two free bottles for them to try on the other side of my Amazon, you cannot do that. You cannot offer free samples. I mean, you can try to roll out smaller sample size, like tribe, but it's not like skincare product. So I would say if you can work with influencers, the more UGC contents you can create, then that alleviate that kind of, you know, uncertainty. This war, you know, trust issue on the other side, if you can really have a true, authentic brand story that stand out, then, I mean, we are pretty good at gaining, gain, gaining PR. So that's one thing. We're pretty good. So, I mean, like this year, we got more than dozens of coverage in the in our target region. So because the media outlets, they like to cover story that are unique. And obviously, health and wellness is always a trendy, trending topics. But is, I mean, it's not like, wow, you know, you just go to send editor request, they gonna cover you. You it's better to engage a team to help you to gain some coverage, and authentic coverage is always better than paid coverage. Obviously, you don't want to do ads. I mean, you can run ads. I did run ads in magazine, but I feel like the impact is no comparison compared to authentic coverage. So I think that's the only way you can overcome is almost like, what makes your potential shoppers afraid of trying your product? Right? What can you do to eliminate those, those fear factors for
21:12
Yeah, how much do you leverage, like, your background and your expertise, like there's not there's countless supplements and healthcare brands and all this different stuff with that don't have doctors running the business. That's just some person that like, I think this works. So like, what, how often do you leverage your own kind of like, personal brand to benefit the business?
21:34
I know this is I do that a lot because, like, like, I said, is my mission to educate. I mean to I should not say educate, right? But it's basically shared wisdom. I hear it. I have learned over years to with people I'm serving, customers I'm serving. So for me, that's, that's what I love to do so naturally that help us to gain PR coverage. So that's almost like you have to enjoy doing this, sharing knowledge, and then people will notice you. If you're working with the right PR team, you will gain good coverage. And that, I feel like that really helps, because with supplement brands, I feel like a lot of people love, especially celebrities. They love to jump into skincare supplement brands. However, the issue is, like you said, it's credibility, especially supplements. I mean, I used to work in pharmaceutical industry, I can tell you more than 70% or 80% of this, just like protein powder, the quality is really low. I mean, I personally looking at lab tests reports, I won't even touch them, and lots of, for example, mushroom powders, right? Mushroom becomes one of the top hot trend in the wellness field, right so, but I think the most recent data I heard just earlier this week, I was listening to some industry news. They were doing some testing. I think they were saying more than 90% of the products out there when they test, they eat the powder in that capsules, whatever has nothing to do with mushroom at all. It's just some powders there. Yeah. So for me, just kind of say, I mean, obviously for me, is that if I want to buy a mushroom powder, I mean, well again, it's probably, well, I want to go to retail that I have good trustworths, that they have good quality control process, maybe like, for example, whole food store, or if I have to buy it online, I have to look at whether they have many reviews, good reviews, and what are those reviews? Looks like, too. But for me, fortunately, I do use medicinal mushroom, but I have my suppliers, and I never would buy a mushroom powder without seeing that real mushroom. I usually buy the real mushroom and then use them that way, from them into powder. It is too. But that's the same thing with lots of supplements. So the vitamin C you're taking, magnesium, you're taking you don't know, calcium you're taking calcium is a perfect example. Even fish oil. Most of the fish oil, when I was in pharmaceutical, one of the product we had was branded prenatal vitamins for women, for, you know, a mom to be. And they only source the company, only source fish oil from a particular supplier in North Northern Europe. And the reason is because that particular prenatal vitamin is not over the counter. It has to be approved and prescribed by approved by the FDA, prescribed by the medical doctor, so that fish oil is the purity is very high and. You will see a huge difference versus the majority of the fish oil on the markets. Either they attended with mercury, because, you know, mercury pollution is a big, big thing in seafoods, all those things and then, or they overcooked. So the problem with oil like now there's a huge sentiment against seed oil, which I'm like, you know, seed oil supposed to be healthy, if you, if you're using the right one, right? But process is that processing thing they're using, if they overcook this fish oil is, actually becomes, is not anti inflammatory anymore. It becomes something that's toxic for you?
25:41
Yeah, yeah.
25:44
So I have to say that credibility is important. So to be a brand, you either know what you are sourcing, how you source the product, I mean, how you source your ingredient, and you can make it super transparent to your potential shoppers, or you can show I have seen, like lots of because I follow a lot of good like Japanese brand and Taiwanese brand in the supplement field, they would list all the certificates, real task results to show you this is clean, no chemical contamination, all those things.
26:20
I wish we would adopt more of that. Dr Angela, thank you so much for being on the show. I don't want to take up too much more of your time. I know you're super busy. I'd love to give you the opportunity let everyone know where they can find out more about you, and, of course, more about car viva.
26:33
Thank you. Yeah, they can visit our website, car viva.com so it's karvivacom, and anytime you guys have questions about holistic medicine, feel free to reach out to me.
26:50
Love it. Thank you so much for being on the show. Of course, everyone who tuned in, thank you as well. Please make sure you do the usual thing, rate, review, subscribe or whatever on whichever podcast platform you prefer, or head over to the ecommshow.com but as usual, thank you all for joining us, and we'll see you all next time have it going.
27:05
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