Doing Amazon Right: Insider Insights from Ex-Amazon Workers at Brand Focus Digital | EP. #172

Looking to elevate your brand's presence on Amazon? Who better to learn from than ex-Amazon professionals themselves? On this 172nd episode of the E-Comm Show, Andrew Maff interviews Clint George and Colleen Caso, Founder and Vice President of Brand Focus Digital. Together we pull the curtain back on what selling on Amazon successfully looks like. 

From the right way to navigating competition to handling 1P (first party) and 3P (third party) sellers, Clint George and Colleen Caso share their expertise on all things Amazon. By the end of this episode, you'll know the must-ask questions to ask when evaluating the landscape and a few key tools that every digital marketer can leverage. Trust us, you don't want to miss out on this valuable conversation.

Watch the full episode below, or visit TheEcommShow.com for more.

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Doing Amazon Right: Insider Insights from Ex-Amazon Workers at Brand Focus Digital

Andrew Maff, Clint George and Colleen Caso

CONNECT WITH OUR HOST: AndrewMaff.com  |  Twitter: @AndrewMaff | LinkedIn: @AndrewMaff 

Clint George and Colleen Caso

Brand Focus Digital originated after working multiple years at Amazon and feeling like there was a better opportunity to support brands in the ecommerce space. Both Clint George and Colleen Caso spent time working on the consumables teams at Amazon learning the business. After creating our boutique agency nearly 10 years ago, we continue to learn and evolve with the ever-changing ecommerce world and successfully deliver results that exceed clients' expectations. Our small but mighty team is fully remote and expands the US allowing for a broader connection with our worldwide clients. We consistently focus on providing exceptional service and professionalism for our clients.

00:00

I think the tools themselves are great, but if you don't know how to use them correctly and you don't know which data to pull, I mean, that's that's really A key.

01:02

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of The E-Comm Show. I am your host as usual, Andrew Maff, and today I am joined by the amazing Clint and Colleen of brand focus digital. Clint Colleen, how you guys doing? You ready for good show? Really good. Yeah. How are you guys? I am so excited to have you on the show. Clint and I got to golf together once at Amazon's accelerate conference, and so Clint beat me. And I was like, All right, you get to be on the show, and

01:30

that's why we're here. We were, we

01:32

were that was a good time. We had a great time. I was super excited to have you both on the show. So I always do a very kind of like stereotypical beginning for the most part, and I kind of give you the floor. And I would love for one of you, or both of you, or everyone at the same time, to just give us some a little bit of insight into brand focus, digital, how y'all got started, where you're at today, and we're gonna take it from there. Okay, perfect.

01:53

Sure, I can start. Yeah. So we've been in business for nine years. Colleen and I actually met while at Amazon as vendor managers in grocery to start. I know she she actually traveled around Amazon a little bit, but that's how we kind of got our start. I moved on to a larger marketing agency after Amazon, and lo and behold, Colleen joined me there. So we have worked together in two different places. We ran our own agencies, kind of side by side, but really technically competitors, and decided last year to merge our two agencies together. And so now we have joined forces. And you know, really 2x Amazon, Amazonians that can really battle the Amazon ecosphere together?

02:46

Yes, exactly. It was kind of like, Why? Why be competitors when we can share resources, and, you know, share learning. So it's, it's been great. Yeah, absolutely,

02:57

that's the way to do it. So is it, is the focus still kind of in the in the CPG space, or what's, what's the thought there?

03:05

Yeah, I mean, we are branching out into other categories. We have, probably about 80% of our brands are CPG type brands. But we, you know, we really span the gamut in categories. We have beauty, we've got health and health and beauty care. So HBC, we've got one tools brand, you know, workout equipment, yeah, exactly. So we've got kind of other, you know, other categories covered a little bit pet as well. So we both have pet experience. So yeah, it's just really, you know, a lot of how Amazon treats things is as a widget. So you know, what can work in one category, usually works in the others. But there are definitely some differences. Yeah,

03:51

exactly. Is it so brand focused digital? Is it primarily focused on the marketing side, or are you like, full service and helping with like, inventory and operations and all that fun stuff too,

04:03

all the fun stuff wrapped in one. We are, yeah, we do

04:07

everything. We're full service. So, yeah, we can, we can analyze, we can forecast, we can help you. You know, we can create, do orders and Seller Central. We can do all that. So, right? I

04:19

commend you guys for going that route. Operations is always it scares me. It's amazing how many times, like, I'll talk to someone about marketing, and they'll be like, All right, cool. Like, you guys seem to have this covered. Can you help with inventory? Like, no, I have no idea where any of your stuff

04:35

I think, you know, there's a lot of complexity, especially, you know, over the last year or two with logistics. And, you know, I always tell our clients, like, less is more frankly, you know, you don't want to ship in a ton of product if you're FBA, you know, kind of smaller shipments more frequent. But yes, logistics can be a bit of a nightmare, just given, you know, a q4 Peak season, and then all of the nuances with various, you know, natural disasters or things happening around the country, you know, you have to really think about where inventory is being placed, and if there's enough staff on hand to do things. So, I mean, truly, it's like a puzzle at times to try and make sure that, you know, everything is aligning, marketing efforts, inventory, you know, all that is is as optimized as possible, all the

05:25

gears turning together. That's, I can't imagine doing that. I don't even know like, because then you factor in like, seasonality, and it's like, oh, how, how down will things be in January, comparative December. So, very cool. You guys go in that direction. One of the questions I know, I always like talking about for a CPG side of things, right? So I've had, I don't know how, countless CPG brands on the show, and it's one of my favorite questions always ask, from an online perspective, when you're selling something that is edible online, it's so hard to get that initial like, get someone to try it, because, especially on Amazon, where price points become a problem, and so, like, you're typically buying in bulk, right? Like, so I've done, I've worked with a ton of different drink brands, like, getting someone to buy a 12 pack or 16 pack, like, the first time is a nightmare. So what's, what's kind of your approach at like, kind of overcoming that barrier, especially when you're with a brand that might be launching a new product

06:23

line. Sure. I mean, this is something we deal with, you know, on a daily basis. Like you said, whether it's a new product launch, a new brand launch. Clint has heard me use this multiple times, but we always say, like, we need the foundation to be solid. So images, you know, five to seven images, video in, you know what? What I could think is great imagery. Somebody else might think like, Oh my gosh. How do you create something like that? Or, you know, why wouldn't you go one step further? You know, everybody's view on creative I think, can be different. So what we try to say is, here's, excuse me, here's the foundation. You know, here are the rules and principles that we try to follow, and then we provide really good examples of that imagery so that we can work with the creative teams to make sure we get there. Because I do think, to your point, if somebody is looking at a retail of, like, 30 to 40 bucks, you know, that's not something. That's a trial item right at that point, it's a bit more of an investment. So for our brands, we always say, like, get your images right. Make sure that we have really good content, strong content, within titles and bullet points. And then the other, you know, hard thing is consumers are also looking at reviews. So if it's a brand new product, you're not really going to have any reviews, and that's when consumers are kind of iffy as to whether they want to buy something. So there has to be a lot of engagement through Amazon buying, you know, influencers or creators, kind of driving some awareness to the product pages. But yes, I mean, when Clint and I were at Amazon, the the mantra crawl, walk, run, was often heard over and over in meetings, and that's what I say to our clients, you know, you've got to build that foundation. And then, you know, we'll, we'll build upon it, yeah, but yeah, can take it. Can take some

08:12

time. I will add, like, one, one other thing too. Like, for, for your example, on beverage brands. I mean, if, if a brand is flexible enough you can do what's called a right sizing of their their packaging. So if they're, if they're ASP, or their average selling prices is, say, 40 bucks, that's, that's really not an entry level, that's not a trial size that customers are really going to, you know, gravitate to. So if they're flexible enough to create even a variety pack, but really a smaller pack, like a four or six pack, even if it's temporary, just to drive some trial, get some customers to try that product and then that, that usually works, even if it's like, you know, I won't, wouldn't say a loss leader, but profit neutral type item. Yeah,

09:02

correct. Yeah. It's a very interesting approach. You mentioned calling to like influencers and stuff like that, primarily off Amazon. Stuff. Are your brands mainly just on Amazon, or are they typically on multiple sales channels?

09:16

Great question. I would say, for the most part, majority of our brands use an omni channel approach, so they're selling elsewhere, Walmart target, brick and mortar. But in order to start, I know a lot of retailers will say, hey, we need your past trailing six to 12 months sales. So if you're really kind of trucking along on Amazon and there's nothing really substantial happening, then a lot of retailers will say, Okay, come back to us, you know, in the next viewing cycle. So I think as long as brands have the ability to lean in and work with creators and influencers, that's truly how you're going to amplify sales, just in the overall omni channel, not just Amazon and. And you know, we have a case study for a brand that partnered with a company called veg news. It's a great publication, really strong content, and we did, you know, over 300% lift in one day from, like, a whole month. So, you know, when you think about level of investment, it's just you have to know who your audience is, and really kind of plug into that. So I think if you can partner with the right people, slash companies, and you're really going, you know, to see success. But of course, there is a level of investment that some brands just aren't comfortable with. Yeah,

10:37

channel Clint, you know she's talking my she's talking my language right now. Yeah, that's what Clint and I started going down a rabbit hole of of like omni channel and how it gets leveraged and for CPG brands, I mean, it's, it's it, it, to me, it's almost impossible to do it at a relatively profitable level to get those initial sales. So like using something like a social media or influencer marketing to kind of spread that word is nine times out of 10. The way that works the best, of course. Then you run into, like, the issue where, like, you know, they're sending people to Amazon, you have 500 different competitors and things like that. One of the things I was kind of curious about, so, like, how, how do you analyze, kind of, like, the differences of, like, the brand you're working with versus the competition? I know Amazon's got all these different tools and things like that through brand analytics and all that fun stuff, but sometimes I think some of it you got to take with a grain of salt, because, like, oh, you know, someone's got 5000 more reviews than you, but their practice started to fall off, and you're still scaling more. So like, how are you kind of edging that, that gap there?

11:40

Yeah. I mean, that's something, again, that we that we do on a daily and weekly basis. I actually have was just sharing some notes prior to our conversation with Clint, several brands that we work with, you know, we're using various software to monitor product listings and look at, you know, the best seller rankings and making sure that we are really moving the needle on on growth for the products. But as you said in you know, you have to start looking at competition. And where you know what your competition is doing. Are they participating in various programs that brands might not be, you know, premium, a plus content. We need to make sure that our brands are really as cutting edge as possible within the programs that Amazon is rolling out to make sure our detail pages are as dialed in and, frankly, as engaging to the consumer as possible. You know, the four P's of marketing we kind of touched on before looking at pricing and pack size to ensure that we are offering something that is in line with what the consumers are looking for, and that it's priced in an inappropriate level. You know, almost all brands that we talk to say, My product is premium. It's excellent product, and it's like, yes, it very well may be, but then you're in the upper echelon of pricing, and the majority of consumers just want something cheap unless it houses an ingredient you know that they're specifically looking for. So there's a lot of comp analysis through helium 10. We use a few other third party tools to pull some data, but you also articulated brand analytics, and I think there's some wonderful insights that Amazon has the customer loyalty data that just rolled out is great. I think that that's an excellent tool just to fuel conversations for brands, when we ask for more dollars or more funding for promotions, it's kind of like, well, here's the information. This is why we need it. You know, so lots of really good tools. It's it's truly just kind of, as I said before, it's up to the brand to feel comfortable to, you know, to make that leap, to spend more, invest more, whether it's in repack, variety packs or whatever.

13:51

And I think that, I think the tools themselves are great, but if you don't know how to use them correctly, and you don't know which data control, I mean, that's that's really a key, and that's where, you know, Colleen and our team comes and come in, is we're used to doing this. We live and breathe it every day. So I think, you know, using those tools, but then knowing what you're looking at and saying, Well, this, this competitive brands been on Amazon for eight years, and they've got 5000 reviews, and I'm just starting, how do I compete with that brand? You know, what are the factors I need to look at? And so it's, you know, it's using that data, say, analyze my own profitability. What is the correct price? I could be slightly higher than this competitive brand but still compete effectively. So how do I do that? How do I use dynamic pricing strategies. And within Amazon, how do I, you know, jump in, and what are all those factors? And so I think, you know, those are, there's a lot of things we could go down, but those are really just the basics. And then once you once you kind of do that, you have to do ongoing analysis. Of, you know, how do I stack up? Because there could be new competition, you know, joining and jumping on the platform daily, really, or monthly. Yeah,

15:09

yeah. I was just, I was thinking that too is, like, we could end up down a serious rabbit hole here. Because, like, I'm thinking, like, all right, everything we're talking about Amazon related stuff makes a lot of sense. But when I think of CPG, and I think of, okay, they have to be leveraging some type of omnichannel marketing, which means they've got some type of presence off Amazon. So then I got to think about, like, Okay, now what other tools am I using to evaluate their their presence versus their competition off Amazon? Because that's probably driving a ton of traffic. And then you start looking at, like, how much of their traffic on Amazon is branded versus non branded, and that could be a factor of what's coming from an office. From an off Amazon perspective. And then we end up down this, this super deep rabbit hole. Most your brands 1p or 3p so obviously, for any rookies listening, vendor Central, Seller Central,

15:53

yeah, it's, it's probably about a 6040, split 3p versus 1p but then we have several that do the hybrid approach. So correct? It's, it's, it's kind of crazy how that kind of works. But, yeah, it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's something that we we are, you know, used to every day, whereas most people are not. Where how do you, how do you deal with both and how do you like work both angles, you know, depending on maybe it's a pack size issue, especially with with food that really gets intricate, like, if it's a heavy product, how do you approach that? If you know, if it's a shorter coated, short dated, or, for those who don't know, expiration dated, those throw in some factors. Or if the primary packaging is, is more of like a breakable situation, where might be glass. How do you deal with glass? So there's all these little factors in there, you know? Oh, which? Which one do I go with? Do I use Seller Central? Do I use vendor Central? What? You know, what? And you may not even have vendor central as an option. Of which, yeah, we're seeing that less and less.

17:06

I'm sure you got we're obviously in a very similar space, so I'm sure you have the same fun complaints about some brands versus others that we want. We're not going to use this as a therapy session. But one of the things I was curious about, so, like, it happens all the time, especially this time of year, right? Like some people, regardless of the obvious seasonality, some people like to look at like, January versus December, and it's like, why are we down? Like, what's the obviously, that's a very exaggerated example, but when you are, you know you're you hop into someone's account, you're a week or two in and to seeing like, things aren't exactly where they were, and seasonally it should be okay, like, what's, what's kind of the go to plan? Is it typically, like, all right, from an advertising perspective, we've got to figure out, you know, is there somewhere we pulled back, or is it more of like a did competition pop in? Like, what's, what's kind of the analysis process?

18:00

Sure, I think there's a lot of different factors that you need to look at. First and foremost is list, is the listing active, right? Is is it suppressed? Because that can sometimes happen every now and again. You know, we have this conversation. Are there third party sellers that are taking over the buy box? You know that, unfortunately can happen if you don't have a tight handle on distribution, so just kind of looking at that. And then you can dig into further granularity of, you know, was there a price increase implemented? You know, were you on promotion for a significant amount of time? And then, you know, now we're just kind of seeing the baseline effect looking at, of course, content pricing, and then you start to look at comps, what is happening with advertising? You know, are you not competitive with your bids, or certain you know, keywords, the cost per click bid price might be quite a bit higher than it had been just again, based on seasonality. So there's so many different factors. And I found it interesting on a call recently with a client, somebody had said, Well, what is it? And I said, it's not one, you know, consideration, like you said, we're moving out of q4 we're moving into q1 people are trying to be healthier New Year's resolutions. Or majority of people, I should say, are trying to do that. So, you know, there is this, you know, thought process shift, but then a lot of people are very price conscious. So as I mentioned before, if you have a more premium product and premium price, you have to really do your due diligence and trying to help with that conversion. So I think it's just a lot of analysis and data pulling to see if your page views have slumped. Then you know, what is it? Is it a content refresh, pricing, all of that. Yeah,

19:41

on the advertising side, are you guys? Do you primarily just handle it, like, directly within the platforms are using any kind of, like automation systems? Yeah,

19:51

we use, we use a third party tool, which is great because it gives you know share, voice, market share, so it can really, again, feel those conversations. For brands to understand where they're stacking up against their peers. And it gives us a lot of really good insights, you know, into truly just the the landscape within Amazon,

20:11

yeah, yeah. And our partner is one of the top software companies in terms of Amazon PPC, so they're all dialed in. They've got AMC access. We've got us, you have to have a seat there. We've got DSP access. So we can really take that next step and that, that deep dive for the client. And if, if there's really something happening within advertising that's causing either the business to go down or something, we can actually take that, that next step with them and really analyze and then, you know, recommend, hey, here's some steps to take that that we can implement. That will, you know, change your your trajectory for the positive? Nice,

20:48

yeah, DSP has become more and more very interesting, especially since at accelerate, actually, where Clinton, you and I met Ed, where they announced that, you know, it's if you've got buy with prime on your site. Now you can start driving traffic to your site from Amazon, which is crazy. So the ability to kind of really bring it all together from an omni channel perspective. Now, instead of just sending it to a marketplace, you can finally send it away within their terms of service, even though some people were doing it before. So as we kind of wrap up here, one of the things I'm always very curious about, you guys are in the Amazon you were in Amazon, literally, and now you're obviously in the Amazon business all the time. Thoughts on where we're going to see Amazon go through the rest of this year, because as of this recording, it's January, so kind of thoughts on, you know, where you think we're going to start to start to see Amazon adjust to certain things over the course of the next year.

21:45

Yeah, I think, I mean, we all know AI is huge. You know, we have Amazon using multiple AI tools in which to, you know, to leverage more efficiencies within their listings and algorithms. I also think the other main focus that Amazon will have is is more logistics and AWD focused. There was such a bottleneck at Amazon during q4 and I know just through LinkedIn, I'm seeing a lot of people post about that. So I do think that there will be, likely more of a focus on logistical efficiencies. I think, you know, maybe some of the programs that they've implemented will go by the wayside, definitely, you know, that needs to happen, and then AI will just continue to dominate. You know, certainly I think we'll see that more in advertising, as as you referenced within the Self Service Council and DSP,

22:41

yeah, I think to also, yeah. I think, I think just in looking at some of their their their internal platforms, so like, I'm speaking more of like Amazon Fresh, they used to run those in silos with their brick and mortar fresh stores. And so we're seeing that consolidate, because we do have contacts with those buyers, and now it's becoming the whole, the really combined effort, versus being separate. So I think that's going to be more and more integrated. And then you see Whole Foods Market is still operating kind of separately, so I wouldn't be surprised if they start integrating those two together at some point. You know, that's all been speculated, but you know, maybe it won't happen this year, but I think they're setting it up to happen.

23:32

We're gonna see and we're gonna find out. Clint, thank you so much for being on the show. Obviously. Really appreciate your time. I don't wanna take up too much more of it, so we'll wrap things up here. I would love to give you guys the floor let everyone know everything in everyone know everything and find out more about you, and, of course, more about

23:45

brand focus. Digital, yeah, definitely at our website. So it's just basic brandfocusdigital.com you can contact Colleen and I directly my emails, Clint@brandfocusdigital.com and Colleen@brandfocusdigital.com

24:01

minus Colleen, at Brand focus, certainly look us up on LinkedIn. Would love to connect Clint and I live and breathe Amazon. So any questions, you know, we're always curious, you know, what? What other brands and other people are experiencing? This was very, very fun. Thank you. So happy to be on here.

24:19

Thank you appreciate you having on the show. Appreciate you being on the show. Obviously, everyone that tuned in, thank you as well. Please make sure you do the usual thing, rate review, subscribe whatever you want on whichever podcast platform you prefer, or head over to the ecommshow.com to check out all of our previous episodes. But as usual, thanks again for joining us, and we'll see you all next time.

24:39

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