Building a 7-Figure Luxury Fashion Brand as a Specialty Retailer - TANI USA | EP. #22

On this 22nd episode of The E-Comm Show, our host and BlueTuskr CEO Andrew Maff is with Adam Dinkes of TANI USA, an online retailer of high-quality luxury undergarments for men and women. As an entrepreneur at heart, Adam started his first business at 9 years old and today, he’s running a multimillion-dollar luxury fashion brand.

Listen to this episode of The E-Comm show as Adam and Andrew talk about all the ins and outs of building a powerful 7-figure brand from learning to map opportunities, identifying your USPs, and weaving your brand story to practical tips and tricks on how to showcase your product through product descriptions, videos, packaging, and more.

Tune in and enjoy today's E-Comm Show!

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Have an e-commerce marketing question you'd like Andrew to cover in an upcoming episode? Email: hello@theecommshow.com

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Building a 7-Figure Luxury Fashion Brand as a Specialty Retailer

SPEAKERS

Andrew Maff and Adam Dinkes

CONNECT WITH OUR HOST: AndrewMaff.com  |  Twitter: @AndrewMaff | LinkedIn: @AndrewMaff

About Adam Dinkes

Adam is an entrepreneur at heart.

He started his first business at age 9, selling stationery
door-to-door. He is a well-respected executive having
demonstrated success in starting and growing
businesses in Beauty and Fashion.

Adam is the President of Tani USA. An online retailer of
high-quality luxury undergarments for men and women
which he started in 2015. Our goal is to set a new
standard in underwear.

Adam is also currently a board member of The John
Ritter Foundation for Aortic Health and a regular guest
lecturer at the Desautels Faculty of Management at
McGill University in Montreal.

Adam has a BA from Brandeis University and an MBA
from McGill University.

Transcript:

00:03

Think just for a small business to get started it's just belief in yourself believing in your product and not being willing to take no for an answer. Hi, this is Adam Dinkes from TANI USA. Hi everyone this is Ozi from Lotus Linens. This is Andy Lam from UpwardBaby and you're listening. If you're listening to The E-Comm Show

00:29

Welcome to The E-Comm Show presented by BlueTuskr. The number one place to hear the inside scoop from other e-commerce experts share their secrets on how they scaled their business and are now living the dream. Now, here's your host, Andrew. Hello,

00:49

everyone. Welcome to another episode of The E-Comm Show. I'm your host, Andrew Maff. And today I am here with Adam Dinkes of TANI USA. Adam, how're you doing today? Ready for a good show?

00:59

Yeah, I'm excited. How are you doing?

01:01

Doing good. Thank you so much for joining the show. I'm super excited about this one because your category is very, very interesting to me. So let's, let's dive in here. And why don't you take a couple of minutes here and tell everyone a little bit about your background who you are about your business and we'll go from there. Okay.

01:15

Okay, sure. I've been a lifelong entrepreneur. I started my first business when I was nine years old, sort of becoming who I am, and about 2013 I started Tanny. And Tammy is basically an online retailer of luxury basics for men and women. Luxury basics, meaning everything from underwear, undershirts, thermals, anything that literally is directly against your skin is the type of thing that we make. Yes, we started in 2013, we've been growing ever since with the years the products have become more and more relevant. We have a solid background in terms of environmental consciousness, which seems to be something that's coming up now. It's been part of the story for us since the beginning.

02:04

What was the business you started when you were nine?

02:08

That's, that's a fun question. Well, basically, my sister had gotten a telephone. She was a few years older than me. And I was jealous. And I wanted to get my own telephone. And my parents said I couldn't get one until I was 13. And I was nine. So basically, in the back of Boys Life magazine, there was an opportunity to sell stationery, personalized stationery door to door. So what I did is I set myself up and literally went door to door knocking on neighbors and asking them if they wanted personalized stationery back then we use stationery and personalized stationery was sort of an exciting thing. And I would make it wasn't money, I would make points. And then I would save up the points until I was able to get my telephone. And for me, that was a real sign of freedom and an opportunity. I didn't have to wait for someone to tell me that I couldn't have something if I wanted to have it. I could go get it myself. So I think there were a lot of lessons in that. You know, it wasn't just about the phone, it was about taking care of myself and paving my own way.

03:17

Yeah. So I guess I don't have to ask if you consider yourself a bit of a hustler. Since you obviously worked hard since you were nine, which is impressive. So how did you I would imagine there's a similar story behind this? But how did you get started with Danny,

03:33

um, I had been in another industry and had been successful in that other industry. And part of my exposure there, was the beauty industry, part of my exposure was consumer products. And I took some time off because again, I wanted to start my own business at that time, I was working with other people and had partners in terms of mapping out opportunities that were really looking at kind of every category, there wasn't a specific category that I wanted to play it or not, it was really what was the best opportunity. And what I was realizing was that over time, I was more and more uncomfortable with the underwear that I was getting, I felt like it was getting cheaper and cheaper. I also felt like it got to the point where the packaging was more expensive than the product inside. And to me that was baffling. And that that is actually true for some of the major brands, I just thought it there's got to be a way to make a better product. The majority of the brands that are out there, for example, use materials that were developed in the 1960s. For the 1980s. We use materials that were patented in 2012 and beyond. So if we compare it to other industries in terms of technology by using the telephone from 1960 We wouldn't be using a telephone from 1985. But now we use our iPhone and that's where we are if you think about the differences in the technology, the same evolution and innovation is taking place in other industries and we look towards fabrics as the opportunity There are amazing fabrics that are out there that are literally cutting edge. They're more expensive than other brands, I mean than other fabrics. And we also get branded fabric. So each thing that we fabric that we use is certified. That is everything that we say that it's. So if we say it's biodegradable, we say it's sustainably sourced. It's not just us, Tammy saying it. It's actually the creator of the fibers that says, there's transparency there with our customers.

05:32

So when you say the technology behind something that's, you know, in the apparel business, that's always, as you'd mentioned, very referred to the actual fabric. But that's always incredibly difficult to portray who your customer base was. Because from the naked eye, a t-shirt, and underwear is underwear. So you have to be able to portray that difference behind it. So how have you been able to kind of market that and pivot around that?

05:57

That's it's a great question, Andrew. And I would say one of our biggest challenges, because like you're saying if you look on a website, which is our primary means of distribution, a black shirt, and a black shirt, no matter what they are made of will look virtually identical simply because they're black, and they're the same shape. So we do our best in our descriptions to explain why our products are different. There is a fabric page that helps you to understand our primary fabric, for example, is a micro modal. Err, other brands use Modelle. Other brands use micro modal. But we use micro modal air and we explain why we use it. And the reason we use it is that it's thinner and finer than silk. So our products actually are better for sensitive skin than silk would be. So we try to convey that. And what we've added is customer reviews. And I find that that's a huge part of just explaining how we're different because these are customers that are talking about their experience with the product. And they tell you why they love it and why they continue to buy Tahani Another thing that we've done to help further is put up some unboxing videos where customers will get the product and then just literally open it up and show you what they get and give you their initial reaction. And it's that's where you get that wow. Because once you get a Tandy product, you feel it, you're like, wow, I 100% understand why this is, you know, more expensive than other brands, there's no question. You can literally tell from the very first touch, but visually, it's challenging, and trying to convey that online is also challenging.

07:41

Yeah, I assume your product is more expensive than the packaging. Yes.

07:45

And so yeah, 100%. And, and if you look at our packaging, actually, it's all recycled, or made to biodegrade faster than other types of materials. So we put a lot of effort into the environmental impact of our packaging. But it's you know, the outer package is an envelope, but our product is packaged in clear plastic. So it's it is 100% about the product, I'm not hiding the product behind an image, there's no fancy man or fancy lady that's showing you how sexy you're going to look in it. It's literally bought this boxer brief, you can see it from the second you buy it, you slip it open, and you've already got you, your experience happens as fast as possible. So you literally get to the product within seconds of

08:37

opening it up. So I know sometimes you'll get companies that will refer to themselves as a premium brand when in reality, the products are made very well. It's a very nice product. You know, it is obviously a high-quality product, but the pricing is set based on the brand, right? You think like your cardio is of the world and you're like really batons and stuff? Do you consider yourself kind of, you know, a premium brand? Or are you just more like we just happen to be more expensive because of the stuff that we utilize?

09:04

I think that it's a premium brand. But instead of relying on an established brand name, or perceived heritage, or you know, some of the other things that prestigious brands are based on, we're focused entirely on our product. And it's not to say that the other luxury brands that you mentioned, aren't focused on their products are amazing in our category. This is truly a luxury product. And it's luxury based on innovation. So it's not based on brand recognition.

09:37

You mentioned the differences of other products versus your own, which is you know the types of fabrics and things that you do but what are the benefits of those fabrics that the user gets from using one of the old ones because trust me, I've got my pair of underwear where I'm just like these things are garbage. So I'm very curious, what's your answer?

10:00

Explain to me what the question is, again,

10:03

like the fabrics that you use that is so the technology that you've obviously improved upon that's been stuck in the 70s. For years, what is the benefit that the user gets from those in those new fabrics that you're utilizing like the last are the more durable, they last longer, they breathe better. Like everything,

10:18

every single thing that you're saying they are they're guaranteed, as I said earlier, to be exactly what they say. If I say it's sustainable, it's truly sustainably sourced, if it's biodegradable, it truly is biodegradable. And every aspect of it that we develop, is designed to do that. But it's designed to make the product more comfortable, that is the focus of our, our whole mission is to figure out how to address issues that men have with their underwear and find ways to make it more comfortable. So for example, we did a soft stretch waistband a couple of years back. So one of the issues men had was that the waistbands, traditional elastic waistbands were squeezing their bodies around their waist, and in some cases, actually leaving a brand impression on your waist. And if you remember that, and that when your head to a red stripe around you, but basically, why are we suffering from that, you know, there are ways to make it better. So we develop this soft stretch waistband, and it holds the underwear up. But it doesn't squeeze or grip your body in a way that makes you more, you know, uncomfortable in terms of the performance of the fabrics. Like you said earlier. They are sustainable, they're biodegradable, they're antibacterial, they're anti-odor, they're highly breathable, they're moisture-wicking, they're basically everything that you want. It's just the most advanced version of that

11:47

you mentioned earlier that you know, your primary sales channel is your website. Are you available in brick-and-mortar retail? Are you on marketplaces at all? Or is it solely available on your website primarily?

11:59

available on our website? And it's also available on Amazon? It's not available in traditional retail brick and mortar stores?

12:06

Is that a direction you're thinking of going in in the future? Or do you like the data? Say,

12:10

you know, I'll be honest, I tried to go to department stores and retailers at the very beginning because it seemed like a logical next step. A lot of them, you know, underwear is not a big category for these department stores. It's a bit of a commodity, it's an add-on, it's not a highly profitable business for them. And it's not an area where they're interested in investing in new brands. If you go to your local retailer, when was the last time you saw a new brand of underwear in you know, in a Macy's, it is literally the same thing that was there 10 to 20 years ago. Yeah. So I found that the retailers, the big retailers were not interested in the category had nothing to do with the products. So I went to the next level, which was sort of men's specialty retailers like where they would use specialty tailoring where they have nice Italian clothing and you know, all that that type of thing. And again, it was just that underwear was you know, not a big seller for them, or it wasn't a category that they were interested in getting involved in. And even though it would make sense that if you're selling men's high-end suits, you know, two $3,000 suits and luxury socks, and this wife would offer underwear and undershirt that would go with that. I mean, that's literally What's touching the customer's body. So the argument was, was real. But again, it wasn't an area where there was any interest in investing in new brands. And while I was out there trying to you know, hustle around and get the brand into retailers, the website was going it was sort of automatic people came back once they try the product, we usually have someone come as they'll usually buy one or two, either underwear under shorts combination. And they come back usually within 24 days, on average, and buy more. So as this happened, sort of the website continued to grow. And I found myself just you know, no matter what I tried, I was banging myself against the door. I mean, it was just not happening. And at that time, I just, you know, what was going was the website, so we just focused on that rather than trying to convince people that there was a business. Well, you know,

14:14

hopefully, they're listening because that sounds to me, that sounds ridiculous because I completely agree. I was in a wedding a couple of months ago and went through the whole like, you know, Men's Wearhouse just a bank thing and like great I gotta get this and this and then I'm like, you don't have like a premium. Anything else like I have all these like, you'd think that that would be a nice upsell opportunity to like head to toe feel great during that big day and exactly like underneath you're gonna still be gross.

14:39

Right? Well, you know, I think people try to have at least one special pair of underwear guys at least you know it's either date night, we all know that night you know going out and this is really like if you're gonna buy one pair from us. This for sure will be your go-to Lucky pair and what you'll Find basically as it'll be so comfortable that it'll wind up rising to the top of your draw. And you'll also find a year later that it still looks great. It still is in the same shape, it has shaped retention, all the performance capabilities are still there. And it looks brand new. And I would argue most brands would deteriorate or start to deteriorate after a year's worth of wear.

15:22

Yeah, that was actually my next question. Because I was curious like it's biodegradable, which, you know, can sometimes mean, it's meant to not last very long. So how long does a pair typically last in comparison to some of your competitors?

15:37

Well, compared to our competitors, I mean, we have customers that have products that they write to us and let us know, they still were that could be five years old, and they still look brand new, but we're talking about me like seven to 10 years, it's gonna start to break down. And once it starts to break down, it's designed to break down to landfill or, you know, that type of environment, because of the materials that we use to break down faster than other fibers or the fabrics.

16:03

So let's go back to the now that the retailers are we were out of the picture. Yeah. So you're, you're solely on your website, you're also doing Amazon, which one of those is is your lead revenue driver right now?

16:16

For website? The website? Yeah,

16:18

so that is relatively common in the apparel industry, right? Because it's a little bit around branding. And it's so wildly difficult to stand out on Amazon because that was my next question. On the Amazon side is, like you said if you just look at a black T-shirt versus a black T-shirt, which is basically almost all you get when you're browsing on Amazon, how are you trying to stand out from the extreme amount of competition that you're literally right, next?

16:43

I think that's I mean, that's, that's an amazing question. Anyone dealing with Amazon would be curious to hear, you know, it's beyond the complex, the Amazon system, it's literally its own ecosystem. And I would argue if you want to play an Amazon, if you're not an expert, you need an expert on staff, because there's, there's just no way to figure it out. I mean, it will take years to figure out the system. But basically, even though our products are on there, if you type in our brand, they won't necessarily pop up. And that's similar to Google where you now have to sort of advertising or compensate Amazon to get yourself to pop up, even if it's just your own brand. But one of the things that Amazon does do is it allows you to set up your own store. So if people can find your store, then they can literally buy everything or anything that they want off of your website. And they buy it through Amazon. So it can facilitate that. But I think Amazon is a requirement, even though it's a really difficult player, it's not a, you know, it's not easy to work with them. But their Prime Program is ideal. Everyone goes to Amazon multiple times a week. And if they can get 20 products, and no, they're going to get it in 24 hours. I think that's very compelling. And even though we ship it within 24 to 48 hours, we're shipping through the post office, and it's going to take a couple of days to get to you depending on the carrier, etc. You know, Amazon has its own distribution network. So when they say it's going to get there two days, it gets there in two days. So I think that's one of the advantages to being on Amazon.

18:28

So is Amazon kind of like a necessary evil for you. Like, basically, you're really only on there because you know that some people are searching your brand name and you still want to be available so that people can get it faster? Or are you on there to try to leverage some of that pre-existing traffic and still try to get it like are you advertising or anything like that?

18:47

Oh, absolutely. We're I mean, in order to get your brand to pop up on Amazon, you have to advertise in the first place. But yes, we are advertising and we're finding we're starting to sell a lot of T-shirts. i One of the questions I had before going into Amazon was Amazon, to me is primarily a lower price environment, you know, you're getting deals, what's cheaper, cheaper, cheaper? And so there was a question about whether Tandy wouldn't be able to move, you know, I'm comparing a $45 pair of underwear to, you know, a five-pack that's costing $15. There's definitely a difference between the two. But what I'm finding is people are actually willing to try Tanny so they're both our existing customers, they're new customers. And I think there's just that curiosity like, Why what is the difference and how different is it and then they buy it and then they understand exactly what it is

19:39

so let's put it back to the breadwinner, the website, what's your what is the marketing strategy that you have, you know, some people that really catered to just organic social, you have paid to advertise, you have an influencer approach. Like everyone's always got a little bit of everything, but there's always one that's the main focus. What is What do you guys kind of focus on?

19:57

I think the most significant driver of traffic, is his articles about Tahani or reviews about Tahani by not necessarily influencers, but I guess they would be called influencers. They were around before influencers. So people that, let's say specialize in style, or they specialize in, you know, high-end luxury products or how to make, you know, live a healthier life. So anyone like that we've reached out to you and sent them some samples. And it's really there, their reaction to the product and what they think and that's both in terms of articles that have been written videos that have been shopped for YouTube, it's really that that's the key driver for us. So it's authentic reviews from actual customers, we do social, to me social is a, you know, is a requirement, but it's not. It's not really a driver for us. It's more a way just to build relationships with our, with our customers and build a sense of community and Google ads we do it's not I think other brands would say they spend very heavily on Google ads, and it's their biggest driver, we we haven't, we haven't really gone in that direction.

21:11

Yeah, I always find that peril on Google ads is very difficult because you're fighting for those top five, six spots, which is usually the cheapest one, or you're just you're limited to copy for the most part unless, of course, you're doing display ads, but even then those are really just more like impressions than actual clicks. What about on like a social advertising side? Because I would imagine for you guys, social advertising would probably be the way to go in terms of being able to get in front of new customers. Have you tried Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, all that fun stuff?

21:45

We've tried Instagram, and we've tried Facebook, we haven't been successful in the past, what I would say is that there are many reasons that a company will not be successful in any of these advertising vehicles. It could be the keywords that that are in there that are not truly identifying what your brand is about

22:07

your pretty catered diet. So you're pretty catered to almost like I would say, like an SEO side slash influencer approach, where they're more like higher-end influencers, like people that are, you know, known in the industry, not just like your tick-tock guy who's got, you know, standing in his underwear sort of thing. So you're going high-level influencer and level and basically trying to leverage the, I guess, the existing traffic from their website that then obviously gets driven over to yours.

22:34

Yeah, and the credibility that they've established with their audience, because, you know, they're not always recommending products, but if they do, it has to be something that they want their name associated with, you know, so they're going to try out the product, and you know, for sure that they're not going to recommend a product that they don't think is worthwhile, because it's gonna cause problems with their audience, and it's gonna make them distrust them.

22:57

Yeah, that's true. So it's at the time of this recording, it's February 2022, the big hot topic is supply chain issues, how have you guys been able to, you know, kind of deal with the fact that it's taking forever to get stuff from overseas?

23:12

That's a great question. So one of our challenges is that the fibers are actually from Europe. So what we do is we have the fibers from Europe, sent to China, where we have a manufacturing facility, make the fabric, and then create the garments. What, so there has been delays in getting the fibers from Europe to Asia. But what we've done is order extra materials as this has been happening, which, and we've also started to move to air transportation. So instead of using, you know, ship or cargo, to get our products from Asia, we actually use like DHL, and they fly overnight. And even though it's a little bit more expensive, the fact that we can keep our shelves stocked and keep the product in stock is more important than, you know, than the difference in the cost in terms of getting products here.

24:07

Are you solely flying it? Or are you doing a mix of like letting some sit on a boat and waiting for line or you just flying everything?

24:15

flying everything? The product, you know, we went through, for example, Black Friday was the best day that we've ever had in our entire history. And, you know, there's we're still going through, you know, growth phases. So then, there's some variability in terms of what inventory we need to keep and how fast it's actually moving through. So in order to maintain that, we have had to keep all our products in the warehouse in Asia, and then as needed, pull from that inventory and fly it over. Yeah, so we're rather than moving all of our product at one time. We're leaving it there and only pulling as necessary

24:58

mark like that. Yeah. Have you heard that approach before?

25:01

It's worked for us? I think maybe for much larger brands, you know, that might not make sense. But where we're in a position where we can do that.

25:12

So one of the questions I always like asking, it's always interesting to me is, you know, we always find that that, you know, million dollars a year mark 5 million 10 million are kind of those thresholds at the beginning of an E-commerce business that everyone always has struggled getting over. I know you've surpassed the seven-figure side. So what do you think was the secret sauce that was able to get you over that initial hurdle?

25:35

I wish I could tell you that there was one secret sauce, I think it was a matter of just believing truly believing in this product, I think that the most difficult part of starting a business is getting it to that point. So getting it from zero to a million is probably the hardest part of the business, because you're starting literally from zero. Once you're at a million growing from there, not that it's it should be easier, but you at least have the momentum and some wind behind you and some existing revenue coming in. So you're less fearful, you know, you can spend the money, you know, the opportunity exists, you just have to build on it. But I think to get from one to, you know, from zero to a million, I think it's just sheer tenacity, belief in yourself motivation, and willingness to make mistakes. I mean, you really are starting with nothing. So you're going to make mistakes. But I think it's you just have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing and pushing. Yeah, I think that's what it is. It's not having zillions of dollars. I mean, you can do it with a lot of money. But I think just for a small business to get started, it's just belief in yourself believing in your product, and not being willing to take no for an answer.

26:50

It's interesting, you say that, because just this morning, this was a topic I was talking to someone about. And when you're running a business, it's those little tiny wins that you have to celebrate, to kind of start to get over that hurdle. And just like you'd mentioned, that first zero to a million is complicated, and it's tough. And, you know, once you break it, it's a little bit less of a stress, and you can take some more risks and things like that because you have that existing revenue coming in. What is it that motivates you or that you do in your day to day life to keep yourself motivated? If you know, you know, things don't exactly go the way you want? Like, what is it that kind of keeps your drive going? And

27:27

I think that's a great question. Because there are such, especially in smaller businesses, ups, and downs, and it's a little bit more of a rocky ship, you know, you're not a big boat yet, you know, you're just sort of a little sailboat or something. So there are days that are that you're really down. And I guess what motivates me most is the idea that I don't have to work for someone else. That's a huge factor for me, I've done that in the past, I've worked with amazing people, but I want to know that I'm spending all that time that I'm spending is not making someone else really wealthy, but at least I'm putting that time into, you know, making my life what I want it to be not someone else's life what they want it to be. And I think that's just an underlying concept or underlying belief. And a lot of, you know, business people that start their own businesses, it's just it's not even wanting to be a boss. It's just wanting to have some control over my life. And that's, I consider that freedom. And I think that's my core driver. Yeah. And it goes back to the, you know, to being nine years old it was to have independence. I don't you know, I never liked being told what to do. So, better IP boss,

28:37

I can definitely stand by that. That makes a lot of sense. Adam, I don't want to take up too much more of your time. Obviously, I really appreciate having you on the show. I would love for you to kind of take a second here. Let everyone know where they can find out more about you or about Danny and then we'll wrap things up.

28:52

Oh, they can definitely look up me on LinkedIn, I have a profile that has lots of information about me and my past experiences. And for Tammy, it would be Tanny ta ni usa.com And I would recommend that people sign up for the newsletter because we have a lot of deals that we give just to those people on the email list. So it definitely makes it a lot more affordable to buy the product if you sign up and you get one of the invites to our sales beautiful.

29:24

Adam, thank you so much for being on the show. Of course, everyone that tuned in thank you for coming to join us today. Please make sure you rate review subscribe, all that fun stuff on whatever podcast platform you prefer YouTube where he comm show.com Doesn't matter. But we will see you all next week. Thanks for tuning in. Have a good one. Thank you

29:42

for tuning in to The E-Comm Show. Head over to ecommshow.com to subscribe to your favorite podcast platform or the BlueTuskr YouTube channel. The E-Comm Show is brought to you by BlueTuskr a full-service digital marketing company specifically for E-commerce sellers. Looking to accelerate their growth? Go to BlueTuskr.com. Now for more information, make sure to tune in next week for another amazing episode of the E-Comm Show