Growing Your Brand Through Strong Community Building - Travel Cat | EP. #23

On this 23rd episode of The E-Comm Show, our host and BlueTuskr CEO Andrew Maff is with Emily Miethner of Travel Cat, one of the few pet brands focused on delivering the best travel gear for cats parents.

In this episode with Emily, we’ll do a deep dive on branding and community-building through traditional and digital marketing channels, and organic and paid marketing strategies. From trade shows and conventions to effective social advertising and influencer marketing, here’s Emily and Andrew to discuss everything you need to know on how to build a strong community that can scale your e-commerce brand.

Tune in and enjoy today's E-Comm Show!

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Have an e-commerce marketing question you'd like Andrew to cover in an upcoming episode? Email: hello@theecommshow.com

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Growing Your Brand Through Strong Community Building

SPEAKERS

Andrew Maff and Emily Miethner

CONNECT WITH OUR HOST: AndrewMaff.com  |  Twitter: @AndrewMaff | LinkedIn: @AndrewMaff

About Emily Miethner

Emily Miethner is a serial entrepreneur with a focus on community building, social media, and digital marketing. Her eCommerce company Travel Cat is a global 7-figure brand with over 60,000 customers in 75+ countries.

An Adjunct Professor since 2014, Emily teaches career and social media courses at multiple colleges and has been featured on Good Morning America and in The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, and Glamour, among others.

Miethner is also an award-winning keynote speaker, leading talks and workshops at events, conferences, and universities about personal branding, social media, networking, and small business marketing, including at The International Youth Leaders Assembly at The United Nations, SXSW Interactive, Lean In NYC, Sony, Columbia, Yale, Harvard, and The American Pet Products Association.

Transcript:

00:02

One of our differentiators just in the pet market itself is that we've always been 100% focused on cats. This is Adam Dinkes from TANI USA. Hi, it's Emily Meithner of Travel Cat and Your Cat Backpacks. Hi This is Andy Lam from Upward Baby you're listening and you're listening to and you're listening to

00:28

Welcome to The E-Comm Show, presented by BlueTuskr. The number one place to hear the inside scoop from other e-commerce experts share their secrets on how they scaled their business and are now living the dream. Now, here's your host, Andrew.

00:48

Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The E-Comme Show. I'm your host, Andrew Maff. And today I am here with Emily Meithner of Your Cat Backpack. I'm so excited for this one, Emily, it rained for a good show. Yes, I

01:00

1. Thanks for having me.

01:02

Oh, this one's gonna be fun. So I this is one of the few product lines where I was like, I remember when this thing came out. And it was everywhere and super excited. But I don't want to ruin it. So why don't you take a moment to let everyone know a little bit more about yourself and more about your cat backpack. We'll go from there.

01:18

Sure. So your cat backpack is by travel cat. That's our umbrella brand. And we're the number one cat travel brand in the world. So we're known for our cat backpacks and cat harnesses, especially but we have a full line of gear for anything you might need to travel with your cat, whether that's taking a walk in your backyard or going as far as a national park. We are really passionate about helping cat parents realize and support the fact that you know cats are not just Contrary to popular belief, you know, beings that sleep all day and don't you know are very easy per se and don't need any sort of, you know, activity and that sort of thing that really for cats to leave happy healthy lives. They need enrichment, they need stimulation. And so our products provide a way to safely do that and to what we like to say safely take your cat beyond the great endorse. So we have served over 60,000 customers as we lovingly called them to over 75 countries. So we do ship globally. And this year, and yeah, we've been doing seven figures for the past couple of years and have seen a lot of growth, especially through the pandemic. And I will note that since we're videoing our cat, my cats might make cameos, of course, my husband and I who are co-founders of two cats ourselves, which are who really inspired the business,

02:49

of course. Great, I hope I hope we're blessed with their what um, so how did you come up with this idea?

02:58

So as mentioned, we have two cats. So my husband and I, have backgrounds in digital marketing him more on the paid side and myself on the organic side. So social media influencers, community, and that sort of thing. And, yeah, so we rescued a kitten on a whim in 2017. It was, they were found in a family member's backyard, and we just happened to be in the area. And we became cat people overnight, and neither of us had had cats. So, you know, we did a lot of researching and talking to people. And you know, a lot of what we heard was people say, Oh, well, you know, you guys are busy, but cats are easy. That was you know, the response that we got a lot. And as we started to do more research, we're realizing cats are not easy, per se, but they're also really fun and have tons of energy. And it's really important to have ways to get that energy out. And so we wanted to, you know, create products that again, would help push the fact that, okay, you need to do more than just watch them sleep all day, and making it making products that make it safe and easy to travel outside. And that's also a utilitarian product to right, a lot of people see it as a bit of novelty, especially our fat cat backpack with the bubble window, which you know, makes your cat look like a little astronaut. But really, at the end of the day, it's a carrier. And it's actually a more convenient carrier because you can hold it on your back or your front versus the traditional crate that you have to you know, can't hold other things. And it also really doubles as a bed. So you'll find many, many of our cats, customers, they end up sleeping in it all day, you know, their parents leave it out. And that's one of our big tips is to leave it out. So you're using it as a safe space.

04:52

Nice. So how did the design come about? Was this something you guys are one thing I know we'll touch on is, unfortunately, there is a lot of competition in this area now? But were you claiming that you know, you guys were the first ones that did this? And if so, like, where did you come up with this design

05:12

so that cap backpacks have existed before us. But so what we really did was, you know, create what we believe is, you know, the best backpack designs, and really taking the design and the quality to the next level. So that was always really, really our goal. And it's funny we mentioned, yeah, they've when we started. So as I mentioned, I've really focused on social media. When we started, I don't know why I remember this number, but I remember the hashtag cat backpack in 2017, having 13,000 or so results. And now it's I think it's above 50,000, or something like it's way, way, way, way more. So we believe that we've been, you know, really a big part of the sort of revolution of people realizing that they can take their cats outdoors. So we started with a really small product line, we were essentially selling the one fat cat and the cat harness, and really just those two products for a while. And then as we got to know our customer base, the thing that we really pride ourselves on is the connection with the community and the people who are using our products, which we connect a lot with a lot of them via Instagram, and they're super passionate. And we like to say I'm actually, friends, I've become friends with some of our customers over the past four or five years. And so just listening to them of what products they want to see or what, where improvements can happen in products that maybe exist already. So the that's yeah, that's always been now how we create our products and our build our product line is what are we hearing that people have issues with? What are the problems we can solve? And, and doing it ourselves. Also, we actually just got back from a 40-hour road trip or a three-week road trip that we spent 40 hours in the car with our two cats. And we got a lot of great product ideas from this trip. We were in three Airbnb, three hotels. And yeah, that's, you know, we were a part of that community, ourselves. And so yeah, that was an interesting experience.

07:30

So you cared, obviously, as you mentioned, to a lot of like the community building the organic side, which is definitely a strong aspect of your cat backpack? What, what would you say is like, you know, your tricks to that, like, you know, how do you how did you go about building this community? How do you go about keeping them engaged, especially with a product line that and correct me if I'm wrong, but like, in my opinion, it's they probably purchase one or two of your items, and then it takes a little while before they need something else? Yeah. So how do you kind of keep that momentum going? Like, what's what's your marketing strategy? Like?

08:05

Yeah, well, you're absolutely right. You know, we are not a consumable products, we're, you know, a premium, high priced product that takes a while for people to buy, at least with the backpacks, and then they shouldn't need to buy another backpack, right, which is a big reason why we're building out our product line like that's a big focus of this year is to create more products that are a bit more general. I like new carriers, for instance, that are not backpacks, but they're just really high-quality carriers with different features, beds, that sort of thing. But, you know, we stopped, I started super just, you know, in the dirt, as people would say, when we were building the community, like, looking through hashtags, as I mentioned, DMing people, following people commenting, and really just spending time myself doing that manually, going into Facebook groups, and watching and listening, not really commenting much at all, but just sort of digesting but really though Instagram is where I would say the community came about, you know, we just really recognize the people who are using our products a lot. And we started conversations with them and would invite them to user feedback sessions when we were developing new products. And we would create different ways for them to communicate with us, like superuser groups on Instagram, where they're then connecting with other people, you know, and we've seen over the years, these people become friends who connected to our community and also Bri COVID. We were on the cat convention circuit we had just started and there's Andy. He's their inspiration there. She's the cat who we rescued on a whim. So you know, we started going to conventions where we were hosting panels, so we reached out to people in our community Say, Hey, do you want to be on a panel to share your expertise of traveling with your cat adventuring with your cat. And so we got to meet some of these great people in person, before the pandemic. And then more recently, we started doing virtual events, partly because of the pandemic, you know, because there were no cat conventions. And because we find, you know, we believe that for us to, you know, continue to be leaders in this space, we really have to lead the way on education and community building, around traveling with your cat, because it's, it's not like anything else, it's not the same as going out with your dog. And so there is, you know, the educational side of it. And so we want to lead the way on that. And so we've posted now, I think, five or six virtual events where we invite these super users to be hosts. And then we do a lot of features, you know, every post that we post on Instagram, is a community member, somebody who's bought from us. And we have a newsletter where we highlight a different cat travel cat Tuesday each week. So those, you know a lot, a lot of different ways that we work to highlight and communicate and stay in touch with our customers.

11:12

And you cater primarily to Instagram right now.

11:16

In terms of organic digital efforts, that's their social media efforts. That's where we put the most time we have been working on tick-tock over the last again, yes. So we actually hired someone just to make tic tock videos for us. So we've had a few viral ones. But really, the reason it's been useful for us is because we take all of those tic TOCs, remove the watermark, and then use them as ads on Facebook and Instagram. And some of those Tik Tok videos or videos that started as TikTok have been the top-performing creatives that we've used. So that's, that's what I would recommend to people is, you know, really utilizing it in both ways. And we post all of our tic TOCs, to Instagram reels, which get way more traction and do really well. So we're, you know, we're paying for the one video, but then we're using it across multiple platforms. Yeah.

12:15

And so you mentioned your, your husband, husband, right. Yeah, husband, sorry. He's, he's catered on the paid ads side, right, you're catered, I'm more of the organic community buildings, who's kind of overseeing operations and all that stuff.

12:31

So he is the more impressive one in the sense that he learned all of this supply chain and manufacturing, from scratch pretty much, which is, yeah, it's been amazing what he's accomplished. And for me, I work more on the product development side. So I'm the one who's really working with our customers to come up with the products to come up with the features, working with our designers to build the tech packs and things like that. And then he's handling the communications with the factory and the supply chain, logistics, and that sort of thing. So we've very, very complementary skills, we're often not doing so, so much collaboration, because we're very independent in what we're taking care of. And we do have a third partner who handles the web side of things. So he's the one, you know, webmaster, you could say, for instance, we recently upgraded to Shopify Plus, so he's taking the charge on, you know, making sure we're taking advantage of that and all the cool capabilities that we have. Okay,

13:33

and are you in a three PL or are you in your own warehouse?

13:38

So we thank the Lord are in our own warehouse. That's one of my favorite things to talk about. Because the worst time in our business was when we were working with three PL, we definitely had a nightmare through PL situation were and that so you know, we were packing and shipping out of this warehouse, we had a connection with pretty much ourselves, you know, I was printing labels, we're hiring someone to come in and do the packing. But eventually, we grew out of that, obviously. And so we chose these three PL that we ended up staying with for about a year and a half. And it just got to the point where they had made so many really big mistakes at different times, where we just thought you know it, there's literally no way that we could do a worse job ourselves. So let's try it. So we've had our own warehouse since the summer of last year, some of 2020 actually. So you know, kind of in the middle of the pandemic. We have an amazing warehouse manager and we actually just moved to a warehouse that's about three times the size we outgrew the space pretty quickly. So you know we know that you can have a good three PL experience and You know, every product line is so different in terms of the challenges or advantages of being in a three PL. But for us, it's just been way more cost-effective to do it ourselves. And we really, really love having that ownership. You know, we're able to fulfill packages and, you know, one to two business days. So it's like we're basically on par, with Amazon, which is just really exciting. And it's great for our customers

15:25

out of your one hair warehouse, you can fulfill that quickly.

15:29

Yeah, yeah, we have. Yeah, we've been able to. Wow, yeah, we really, really great warehouse manager and team members there. So we're pretty, pretty proud of that. Not on the weekends, but. And we've had our fair share of delays, but it's mostly been because of supply chain and not warehouse issues.

15:51

How have you guys been dealing with the current supply chain issues?

15:54

Yeah, so we've definitely been lucky. And a few senses, just in terms of timing of when prices increased and that sort of thing. Because we've always had a good margin on all of our products, I would say, you know, for us, the supply chain, the supply chain, and continued COVID effects have more. So I would say like stunted our growth, then they have hurt our business, which we feel very lucky about, you know, we know a lot of people were driven, some businesses into the ground really, really had damaging effects. But for us, you know, we, we haven't raised any prices, which we totally could have. And we're who'd be totally warranted to. But luckily, we haven't had to do that yet. And, you know, we're shipping in enough product that, yeah, I mean, prices have gone up a lot, but we've been able to sort of maintaining. But we definitely would have seen, you know, better numbers in 2021. If it wasn't for the extra shipping costs.

16:59

Yeah. Have you been putting it on a boat? Or are you flying it over? Or a mix of both?

17:04

We pretty much do all, all by See, unless we are trying to get some products over early for content. So when we have new products, will normally airship, you know, a few of them, and we'll send out send that out to influencers. And our VIPs because for us, you know, we take product shots. You know, in a studio, we have a studio we work with, but obviously for lifestyle shots and things are limited, you know, we only have our two cats, and we're not the best photographers. So we really rely on our influencer community to get really good content for us for any product drop. So then those are the times that we'll airship or if we are semi desperate, you know, for getting products back in stock, we've sometimes you know, weighed the costs of the patient, we airship a certain amount just to get them out. Because we're back ordered we've definitely had certain products that have remained that frequently have gone out of stock, because of the demand and the supply chain issues.

18:11

What is your influencer strategy? Like? Like? How do you decipher who to work with who not to work with, when they should post what they should post? Like? What's what's your, your process for that?

18:21

Yeah, so for us, we've always looked at influencer marketing as a content play. So we've never looked at it as a sales channel. Because in the four or five years that we've been around of all the, you know, influencers or people we've given product to, or just our customers who've paid for the product and posted about it, you know, I could name you the five that have actually ever driven us a significant amount of sales. And we've had, you know, close to 100,000 customers over time. So yeah, so for us, it's always been a content play. So who takes good photos? Who takes good videos? And what sort of content are we looking for? And, you know, we, at this point, now we have a set of, you know, 15 to 20, people who we almost always send all of our new products to, and know that we can get some really great content for them. But we also always try to cycle new people into that group of folks who, you know, kind of spread the love and give the opportunity to other people. And so and most people, we're giving the product out in exchange for content that, you know, they submit to us through an official form that gives us the right to use it and any marketing and yeah, and they're and they're happy to do it. There's not been that many times where we've paid for placement are me because most of the time we honestly don't care if the people posted on their channels, because that's not what we're doing it forward. Yeah, we can get the photos and videos to you. and adds to us on our website. So yeah, it's been a small number of people with who we've negotiated content with. And at this point, we are more willing to pay for content on YouTube and blogs, because those are long-lasting, right. And those would make a difference to us if people are googling or searching on YouTube, best cat backpack. But, you know, we've, we would never at this point pay for anything to be posted on Instagram, maybe on Tik Tok. But, yeah, we were very discerning about what we pay for.

20:38

So the one the 10 to 15 that you work with all the time? Are they primarily on Instagram? Are you a primarily through like YouTube and blogs.

20:47

So they're the people who, you know, the group of about 20, who we frequently send our free products to for free, they post on Instagram. But again, you know, for us, it's more about, you know, they, I mean, they, the followers, they have could range from, like, 300 to, maybe we have one in that group that has around 10 or 15,000. But yeah, again, it's not, it's not about expecting that their posts are going to, you know, sell us products, but I would say that their posts definitely help to get the word out and get people excited, because a lot of these people are connected, and this cat travel cat adventures. Totally a scene and a group of people. So it's definitely helpful to have, you know, you know, it's like, we have boots on the ground people talking about our products, and how much they love them. And, and, and, and also being having good enough relationships where we know that they'll give us feedback as well, and things that they don't like. So that's something we really value.

21:48

That's good. I guess a little bit with the influencer thing as well as with what we were talking about earlier. So how are you differentiating between your competition? Because now, you know, there's a several of them out there, at least for you know, the traditional cat backpack with like, the astronaut looking thing on it. So like, I know that one a lot. I've seen a lot of them. How are you differentiating? Like between you and your competitors? Is it your community? Is it you know, what, you guys are listing on the product pages? Like how have you been kind of maneuvering that?

22:18

Yeah, I mean, I would say it's 100%, that community and the brand, you know, we're really one of the few cat travel products that are out there. And we're also one of our differentiators, just in the pet market itself is that we've always been 100% focused on cats, and we will always be focused on cats. That's, that's a huge difference from other pet brands. I mean, we've gone to these giant retail trade shows, or, you know, pet industry events, and you know, the ratio of cat to dog things and products is 10 to nine-year 20 to 80. And so, you know, people really appreciate that they know that we're a cat company, that's all we talk about. It's not, you know, a travel Pet, It's a travel cat because cats are very different than dogs. So the community that we've created around education and awareness has been huge. So I would say, community 100%. And that's a big part of what I'm continuing to focus on and grow out is how do we get more people involved? How do we create more and better educational resources? You know, if you buy a cheap back cat backpack on Amazon, you're not going to get articles or videos about how to get your cat used to the backpack, you're not going to be able to DM the Amazon page and say, hey, my cat's not liking it. Do you have any tips for me? You know, but those are the types of things that you can do with travel cats.

23:54

Yeah. So you mentioned you've done a lot of the like conferences, events, and stuff. So like I've done was at Super zoo a couple of times. You're absolutely right. Like it is almost all dogs. Um, but I know like typically with those, it's a lot of, you know, Mom and Pop retailers, for the most part looking to kind of have you know, their product. Are you also available in retail? Are you strictly online?

24:17

So, what's your pet product? Did you have a pet product?

24:21

No, I didn't

24:22

I was there with a client. Okay. SuperZoo and, and global Pet Expo were the two big trade shows attended. And we're going actually back to the global pet for the first time in a couple of years this year. So you know, we, because of the especially the backpack, you know the price point and for what it is, right from the start, we were thinking you know, this would be good to get into retail stores so people can try it on and see it and see the quality for the price point. And so that's why we started going to trade shows, basically less than two years after we started. But we did have the goal of getting into larger retail chains. So the little mom and pops is more so like, okay, cool, that's an easy one-off. But then eventually after going a few times, and then with COVID, we took a pause, because we're like, you know, it's, you don't have the capacity or a dedicated team member to really service these small retail orders. And it was a little cumbersome. And we hadn't had the time to finish or follow through any of these larger deals, you know, we were especially interested in still are in getting distribution in other countries just because of the shipping costs. So Australia, and Canada are always two big ones on our list. But now as our team has grown, and we've gotten some more systems in place, for instance, we use a platform called Fair, which is a Wholesale Buying platform. So that's enabled the smaller stores to order from us in a much easier way. It takes like no time for us. And we actually hired a dedicated person to work with us on this larger retail and licensing deals. So it's not a huge part of our strategy. But we definitely think it's helpful to be in these stores to have, you know, some stores we'd love to be in way more stores than we are now. But hopefully, we'll get some bigger indie chains. That's kind of our goal, not necessarily Petco. But there are a lot of regional chains that might have 2050 60 stores. Those are more so the ones we're interested in. Yeah.

26:30

What about online besides your website? Where else are you guys available?

26:35

So we are on Amazon. And just, of course, you know, because we have to be it would be silly not to because of the search volume of, you know, our product. So we did hire an agency to help us launch that. And we're actually taking it in-house, again, with some consultants to cut down on costs. They weren't performing the best. But it was great to have them to get us started. And we are looking to expand into some other countries through Amazon and like Amazon, Canada, and Amazon, Japan. We're at Walmart, but we don't do much there. And we have iPads just gotten a little

27:16

cameo.

27:18

I actually think that just happened because one tried to go into them Yabo home, this is one of our bed products, and they love it. And I think he was in there and will tried to get in. Yeah, so we are also in Walmart, but that doesn't do much chewy has approached us we're considering it. Definitely this year, our focus is on new products and more distribution. So we're, you know, open to getting the brand out there more through other channels and our own. But we do also just believe that you know, our direct-to-consumer child channel will always be you know, by far the biggest source of revenue and action for us.

28:00

Yeah. Is your website, or is Amazon your primary revenue driver right

28:06

now? Or website by far, by far? Yeah,

28:09

it's always very interesting to hear the response to that because I can always tell when someone's started to really build like a community and start to solidify their brand. It's like, oh, it's our website. Like it's definitely our website, but then you go the other route, and it's just like, we're just pumping out product and we're doing a ton of revenue and it's just, you know, we're happy that way like, oh, it's Amazon. I don't even look at my stuff. Yeah. Okay.

28:34

You're like we've met other brands like this one. Cat brand we love it's called Cat amazing. It's like a toy like a box toy and enrichment toy. That's why we really like it. Yeah, they just push every they have a website, but it just pushes right to Amazon. So So yeah, for us, we know that our own channel will always be our biggest play. And I think that that's how most people are finding us is through all the organic SEO and branding that we've built up through Instagram and that sort of thing.

29:05

So you mentioned you guys have surpassed seven figures several times over the past few years. That first you know, the first year breaking a million is always one of the hardest things that a lot of sellers always talk about. What would you say is the main thing that allowed you guys to you know, surpass that that first hump there

29:23

um, you know, we actually had really significant growth the first couple of years just you know, because I think we found this it's hard to say it's like it was hard to do this but we found this niche that really wasn't being taken advantage of and again, like as we mentioned like cat people are usually disregarded and not you know, secondary citizens. So you know, right from the start and my husband and I are both serial entrepreneurs, we have other businesses we are still working And we're working on as we launched this, it was a side project like I didn't actually start talking about this publicly for, you know, for the first two years, I kind of kept it private because it was so random-seeming and different. done previously. Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think it's just that we've really found a need and, and, and also that we always, from the beginning, felt super passionate, especially myself, leaving the community and the organic side of things, were just so passionate about these people. And even again, like, right from the start, we're like, only cats, we're not doing anything with dogs. And I will say that I had every other animal growing up besides cats, so I'm not like one cat person. And I love dogs as well. And I understand dogs. And my family actually had an animal party business when I was growing up. So we literally have a basement full of animals. So I'm an animal person, like, through and through, but I yeah, I just really recognized, you know, when we found Andy that, yeah, there's just a lot of misconceptions about cats. And they're super fun and cool. As she plays, basically, you know, it's, they're, they're great. So, yeah, I just think that focus on our audience, and, you know, unfortunately, the pandemic, you know, definitely caused us to see a lot of growth that year 2020 people shopping more online, people having the extra money to spend on stuff, you know, and pets, pets, and babies, you know, two really good industries that people don't really stop purchasing for. And we have an interesting customer profile because it's, we do have premium-priced products. So you would think that it's all, you know, the wealthy, you know, like rich, urban, or suburban people that are buying our products, but you really, it really runs the gamut, because we might have people who, you know, are like Walmart shoppers, but for their cat. They're like, I want the best because they're exactly at people. It's we have a pretty diverse, we have a few customers or profiles, but it's pretty diverse in terms of the folks who are purchasing from us.

32:19

Yeah. What about you personally? So like, you're obviously the founders of cat backpack, you. As you mentioned, you have other side businesses you guys have been working on as well. What is it that motivates you, like what kind of gets you up and is driving you every morning,

32:35

I think just seeing the difference that our products make in our customer's lives. And part of that is, you know, watching it unfolds through Instagram, especially which I try to not look at it as much anymore. And I don't actually run it on a day-to-day basis. But you just see how happy people are to have products that enable them to spend more time with their cats, and you know, quality bonding time with their cats or just make their lives easier, because going to the vet isn't as stressful as it used to be because it's easier to take them in this backpack that they enjoy being in than a plastic crate. So you know, I just think seeing that happiness and yeah, just really enjoying being an animal person at heart, like I said, growing up surrounded by animals. And I sort of had this break of living in the city with no animals and college and whatnot. And so yeah, just being able to, on a day-to-day basis, interact with people and pets, and the joy that they bring is a huge, huge driver. So I've really, especially within that taken a love of like the product development and you know, coming up with what more products can we make to make our customers lives even easier and more fun and to make cats happy?

33:53

Yeah, that's great. I obviously don't want to take up too much more of your time. I really appreciated having you on the show. I would of course like TV, this opportunity to let everyone know a little bit more about cat backpack where they can find you all that fun stuff.

34:06

Yeah, absolutely well, so on Instagram where your cat backpack and your cat backpack calmly. And if people want to connect with me, the best bet is LinkedIn. It's Emily Misner, which checks the show notes for the spelling of my name because you probably won't get it right. But happy to connect with people in the direct-to-consumer world, especially those focusing on that organic community side of things.

34:31

Emily, thank you so much for the show, of course, everyone who tuned in thanks you for joining us today as well. Please make sure you rate review subscribe, all that fun stuff on whichever podcast platform you prefer. YouTube or ecommshow.com. But as usual, thanks again and we will see you all next time. Have a good one.

34:48

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